The new manager hunt (was the Moyes thread) only 3 days to wait...

baracks_a_hammer

I’m erring on making the change in the summer.

Moyes May do the job asked of him, but do we truly know the definition of success when he joined? Because if it was to keep us up and say we end up with 39-40 points it hardly qualifies as a resounding success.

All the usual suspects who hog all the jobs - Pards, Hodgson, allardyce, pulis Moyes need to make way to freshen things up.

If we are truly intent on completely rewriting our recruitment methods this should apply at managerial level not just players. I just don’t think moyes will help us kick on and I further think we will continue to look over our shoulders and hope we are clear enough of the drop zone.

grey_til_I_dye

Well, unless Moyes' success at Everton was the longest fluke in football history, I'd say he has demonstrated that he has the know-how and experience to take us to our realistic next level, which is to say 10th+.

I'm totally against the idea of chopping and changing managers; people knock the fact that the likes of Moyes and Allardyce keep getting jobs, but say nothing when the Ancelottis and Guardiolas of this world waltz into top jobs.

If the top clubs don't feel a need to take a chance on unproven managers, I'm not sure why we should be expected to.

Leave Moyes to get on with it for 3 years, says I.

thornburyiron

When the players admit they were unfit and broadly lazy and Moyes changed all that it suggests to me that he knows what he’s doing. I’d stick with him.

Fortuneseeker

ASLEF,

I rest my case. ;whistle ;biggrin ;wink

Fortuneseeker

Will Moyes have a say in who becomes DOF & if so the Davids might have a number 1 candidate who he can't work with?

baracks_a_hammer

Thorn

Mixed amongst that we have also been thrashed/humiliated on a few occasions too. The picture re: Moyes is not really conclusive either way IMO

Vorselaarhammer

If we stay up then we should give Moyes a full season at least, pre season is such a massive thing for a manager.

He plays decent football, knows how to build a squad and it mature enough to deal and understands the David’s....

I like Howe but we outplayed Bournemouth with Moyes in charge.

Vorselaarhammer

i think Sunderland is a basket case I assume he want to buy quality but due to whatever is going on behind the scenes he ended up with just some bodies that he trusted.

On Pardew the day he was announced I think I wrote on this forum that WBA we’re doomed, sacking Pulis and replacing him with Pardew was a terrible decision...

ClaretandBlueforLife

MrsGrey said:

Depends on your point of view.

Personally, I hope Moyes stays.

Which by implication means I think he was a good appointment.

I hope Moyes stays to, there’s not much managerial talent around in English Football

Fortuneseeker

C&BfL,

There might be a manager outside England that could do the job.

That's not to say I am particularly against Moyes staying on. ;ok

ClaretandBlueforLife

Fortune ;ok
Moyes has been a good appointment so far, Billic was a poor appointment, who I doubted for the start, although I was happy to be proved wrong in his first season, there after it was normal service as far as he goes as a manager. Allardyce did a good job for us, but I think most were relieved when he left.....as for Avram......total disaster.

baracks_a_hammer

I’m struggling to see the case right now to keep Moyes for x amount of time. I mean the season is far from done and we are not safe. 37 points (say) and scraping safety is by no means a ringing endorsement. I agree by the same token it may conversely be too early to want him replaced also. But by virtue of the fact that even our owners did not want to commit to him as a longer term option the whole situation can only really be assessed at the end of the season.

ClaretandBlueforLife

I’ll stick with Moyes, he’s done a good job so far.

Cuz1

Whose the director of football going to be because I suggest he and the manager should forge a good relationship too to move the club forward

ClaretandBlueforLife

Yes keep Sullivan well clear of any transfer dealings, he’s poison.

MarkNobleLocalHero

I was happy with Moyes when he was appointed and after a very short time he had the club playing at a much improved level. There was a poor patch recently when we fell back (coincident with Masuaku's enforced rest) and I became disillusioned again but after Saturday I am still euphoric and therefore more than happy to stick with Moyes for the next couple of seasons...unless some disaster occurs between now and seasons end...fickle or what ;lol

Yeoldhammer

Vorselaarhammer said:

If we stay up then we should give Moyes a full season at least, pre season is such a massive thing for a manager.

He plays decent football, knows how to build a squad and it mature enough to deal and understands the David’s....

I like Howe but we outplayed Bournemouth with Moyes in charge.

We drew with Bournemouth both times this season ?

IronHerb

Doesn't mean we didn't outplay them.

Yeoldhammer

didnt they go 2-0 up we made a comeback and they score in the last minute. Game of 2 halves i recall not outplayed.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

For me I’d rather we went for someone a bit younger maybe a foreigner, but in our current situation it could be better to build slowly

Moyes has done “okay” in my eyes, nothing spectacular and we’ve still suffered some terrible hidings, which showed the same problems when Slav was here. I think he’s been honest and I like that as well.

Regarding the fitness of the squad, too much is made of that for my liking, you look at any Burnley, LFC and Swansea defeat and a portion of the fan base are screaming “lazy, not fit enough!!” However after a saints game it’s “oooh that warm weather training worked out didn’t it” bottom line for me, there is normally the same amount of fitness and effort, the key factors are form and confidence, plus the lines in the PL are so fine, don’t take your chances or be clinical and you’re history.

I’d give him a 40-50m pot and see what he can do, but none of these ridiculous “is he a one season wonder” nonsense coming down from the board, back him and trust him. If not we will forever be going round in circles and not progressing too much, build something have a plan and stick to it

Just my two cents

Bazshuayi

Sorry, I'm confused... Do we give him 40-50M or just two cents ;puzzled

chicagohammer

I was against his appointment and frankly have seen little to give me much confidence, when we looked good for a couple of games, I was unimpressed with a few comments that were reported, may have been spoken in jest but IMO it smacked a bit of arrogance, we then slipped back a bit.

Despite all the above, we had a good performance on Saturday and I think that we will be safe this year.

I am against swapping out managers as if we have a revolving door. My take is that any forward looking appointment of manager should go hand in hand with the appointment of director of football, they should work closely together as a team, if that means we keep DM then so be it.

Re DM, I obviously hope he does well for us and I have a healthy slice of humble pie in my pantry, I did look at it a month or so again but was able to resist temptation, absent a requirement driven by the appointment of a Director of Football, he should be given another complete season at least.

Vorselaarhammer

Yeold, I was meaning style of play rather than result.

When thinking about Moyes I compare him to our last british manager, I think our style is a lot more attractive under Moyes and I think he can also bring the squad character and organisation that BFS did.

I never judge West Ham on winning, after about 5 years of supporting them I realised it was like judging a mini on 0 to 60 time... ;hmm

MarkNobleLocalHero

and they score in the last minute.

They were given a goal by an idiot ref that was a clear handball, even after he had a long conflab with the lino. Bring on VAR!!!!

Kuchinghammer

Baz: to make it clear... we give him 40-50m, of which Slav contributes 2 cents ;wink

buffybegood

It's really hard to judge Moyes fairly on what he's had to work with this season imo. Imo, he's done about as well as he could do given the squad he inherited, the injuries, and how poorly the board did in the only transfer window he's been at the club.

Lukerz

For me, I always feel that a football manager is the product of the environment he works in. I mean, obviously there are exceptions of just terrible appointments and bad managers full stop, but when it comes to managers appointed at certain levels, it's more the whole picture as opposed to just them.

You only have to look at managers who seem to excel in one job (look at Pardew with Newcastle and then Palace, compared to what he is doing at WBA), but completely fail to deliver in another. There are various other examples of managers who go to a club, do well, go to another club and fall short. Moyes is a prime example; fantastic success at Everton, utter failure at Sunderland, and a couple of jobs in between where he did neither (obviously, failure is the term I am using but it's not really the correct term and is subjective). Has the manager actually changed during that time? Not really. He's obviously grown and maybe developed with experience and after learning from certain things, but his credentials are still the same. A qualified football manager with experience.

But it can't just be as simple as 'change the manager, change the fortunes'. Moyes (and all managers) have a massive support team (coaches, medical staff, analysts, scouts etc), a squad of up to 25 players, a youth team, board of directors etc. It's a group effort. So as alderz (I think) alluded to, it's more getting the structure and environment correct, and appointing a manager who fits the club infrastructure.

I think you always give a manager a pre-season and then the first 12 games to see where you are going, but obviously you'd want to avoid an appointment where you have to change the manager again after those 12 games; so you're looking for an average or above average level of performance/results after that first dozen matches.

I don't think Moyes has done anything so far to suggest he can't achieve an average level of performance/results at the start of next season. I would say if we spent all season fluctuating in that 14th-11th area of the league that would be an average, with 10th-7th being above average. I think the top 6 are untouchable for now but, as Burnley have shown this year and Leicester two years ago, dare to dream a little. My main gripe is always performance. There are certain ways of playing. I wouldn't want to sit 14th-11th playing football associated with Tony Pulis, but I haven't seen that from Moyes so far. I think he sits nicely in between a Sam and a Howe.

Our status is still not confirmed, but should we survive, I would expect Moyes to remain in charge and I don't think you can argue with that and I don't think, like Sam and Bilic, him being dismissed further into the future means it was a poor appointment, it would mean a poor performance from a whole host of people associated with the club.

Giant_Hammer

MarkNobleLocalHero said:

and they score in the last minute.

They were given a goal by an idiot ref that was a clear handball, even after he had a long conflab with the lino. Bring on VAR!!!!

This, this, this. ;angry

Yeoldhammer

Vorselaarhammer said:

Yeold, I was meaning style of play rather than result.

When thinking about Moyes I compare him to our last british manager, I think our style is a lot more attractive under Moyes and I think he can also bring the squad character and organisation that BFS did.

I never judge West Ham on winning, after about 5 years of supporting them I realised it was like judging a mini on 0 to 60 time... ;hmm

In my opinion I think Howe plays an attractive style of football, High pressing, highly motivated. Relatively sound both defence and attacking wise, he has a nice balance. I personally think he has moulded a well rounded squad but is limited by Bournemouth's finances. To me he has the fundamentals that he could walk into another mid table club and perform just as well or better than he currently is doing.

puddleglumhammers

Am I right in assuming the following ?
1/ Moyes decided to play Arnie as a central striker.
2/ Moyes decided to play Cresswell as part of the 3 in defence.
3/ Moyes has played 3 at the back far more than Bilic ever did.
If so, then he deserves a lot of credit and should stay.