The new manager hunt (was the Moyes thread) only 3 days to wait...

buffybegood

It's really hard to judge Moyes fairly on what he's had to work with this season imo. Imo, he's done about as well as he could do given the squad he inherited, the injuries, and how poorly the board did in the only transfer window he's been at the club.

Lukerz

For me, I always feel that a football manager is the product of the environment he works in. I mean, obviously there are exceptions of just terrible appointments and bad managers full stop, but when it comes to managers appointed at certain levels, it's more the whole picture as opposed to just them.

You only have to look at managers who seem to excel in one job (look at Pardew with Newcastle and then Palace, compared to what he is doing at WBA), but completely fail to deliver in another. There are various other examples of managers who go to a club, do well, go to another club and fall short. Moyes is a prime example; fantastic success at Everton, utter failure at Sunderland, and a couple of jobs in between where he did neither (obviously, failure is the term I am using but it's not really the correct term and is subjective). Has the manager actually changed during that time? Not really. He's obviously grown and maybe developed with experience and after learning from certain things, but his credentials are still the same. A qualified football manager with experience.

But it can't just be as simple as 'change the manager, change the fortunes'. Moyes (and all managers) have a massive support team (coaches, medical staff, analysts, scouts etc), a squad of up to 25 players, a youth team, board of directors etc. It's a group effort. So as alderz (I think) alluded to, it's more getting the structure and environment correct, and appointing a manager who fits the club infrastructure.

I think you always give a manager a pre-season and then the first 12 games to see where you are going, but obviously you'd want to avoid an appointment where you have to change the manager again after those 12 games; so you're looking for an average or above average level of performance/results after that first dozen matches.

I don't think Moyes has done anything so far to suggest he can't achieve an average level of performance/results at the start of next season. I would say if we spent all season fluctuating in that 14th-11th area of the league that would be an average, with 10th-7th being above average. I think the top 6 are untouchable for now but, as Burnley have shown this year and Leicester two years ago, dare to dream a little. My main gripe is always performance. There are certain ways of playing. I wouldn't want to sit 14th-11th playing football associated with Tony Pulis, but I haven't seen that from Moyes so far. I think he sits nicely in between a Sam and a Howe.

Our status is still not confirmed, but should we survive, I would expect Moyes to remain in charge and I don't think you can argue with that and I don't think, like Sam and Bilic, him being dismissed further into the future means it was a poor appointment, it would mean a poor performance from a whole host of people associated with the club.

Giant_Hammer

MarkNobleLocalHero said:

and they score in the last minute.

They were given a goal by an idiot ref that was a clear handball, even after he had a long conflab with the lino. Bring on VAR!!!!

This, this, this. ;angry

Yeoldhammer

Vorselaarhammer said:

Yeold, I was meaning style of play rather than result.

When thinking about Moyes I compare him to our last british manager, I think our style is a lot more attractive under Moyes and I think he can also bring the squad character and organisation that BFS did.

I never judge West Ham on winning, after about 5 years of supporting them I realised it was like judging a mini on 0 to 60 time... ;hmm

In my opinion I think Howe plays an attractive style of football, High pressing, highly motivated. Relatively sound both defence and attacking wise, he has a nice balance. I personally think he has moulded a well rounded squad but is limited by Bournemouth's finances. To me he has the fundamentals that he could walk into another mid table club and perform just as well or better than he currently is doing.

puddleglumhammers

Am I right in assuming the following ?
1/ Moyes decided to play Arnie as a central striker.
2/ Moyes decided to play Cresswell as part of the 3 in defence.
3/ Moyes has played 3 at the back far more than Bilic ever did.
If so, then he deserves a lot of credit and should stay.

Fortuneseeker

Yes and this is the same David Moyes who hasn't play Hernandez anywhere as often as he could have.

PrestonHammer

Hernandez has been injured quite a bit.

ASLEFshrugged

Hernandez was injured for Moyes's first four games in charge but other than that he's been fit to play.

He was left out of the squad because other players, specifically Arnie and Lanzini, were in good form, the only questionable move by Moyes was dropping Hernandez for the Liverpool game after he's scored in two consecutive games

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

If I also believe the signings were his signings too, Mario has shown glimpses but see no point in Hugill and Evra is a joke...which is a tad worrying for me

But obviously january isn't a great time to buy so perhaps i'm being harsh, although his purchases at Sunderland were deeply uninspiring imo (but again they were awful anyways)

Think the final run of games will answer the question for me, but personally im in favour of keeping him just because he does need time and has done an okayish job. Think him getting the most out of Arnie is a big plus, as the results haven't exactly been amazing

But what he has done is give us an identity, think under Bilic we had no plan, we aimlessly passed it around the back for 5 minutes only to thump it 50 yards up the pitch. Also I think if he got to them at preseason it would have been much better as the fitness levels were frankly embarrassing under Bilic and the players look fitter and sharper despite the average age being quite high

For me he needs to beat Stoke and Everton (could live with a draw in that one). Chelsea, United, Arsenal and City are all free hits so not gonna judge him too badly if we lose all of those

In addition I dont think there are a huge pool of top top managers out there who can do a better job then him, we've been turned away by ambitious managers when were were in a much better light then we are now

ASLEFshrugged

We signed Evra because the window had closed and the only LB options we had were Cresswell or Antonio until Arthur had served his six match ban. Unless we get another serious injury crisis I wouldn't expect to see Evra on the pitch in a West Ham shirt ever again

SuzanneClaret

;phew

Cuz1

ASLEFshrugged said:

We signed Evra because the window had closed and the only LB options we had were Cresswell or Antonio until Arthur had served his six match ban. Unless we get another serious injury crisis I wouldn't expect to see Evra on the pitch in a West Ham shirt ever again

I wouldn’t have wanted to see him in one ever

baracks_a_hammer

ASLEFshrugged said:

We signed Evra because the window had closed and the only LB options we had were Cresswell or Antonio until Arthur had served his six match ban. Unless we get another serious injury crisis I wouldn't expect to see Evra on the pitch in a West Ham shirt ever again

Bet our reserve/development team left back would have been thrilled at knowing this.

thornburyiron

If he was the guy they’ve just let go he obviously wasn’t rated.

baracks_a_hammer

Well it’s all academic - in Arthur’s absence we had a pretty poor run and got humiliated on occasion too

Hammerlegend

For me personally, I would stick with Moyes, I think he has done a decent job and had to deal with some tough times with injuries. I think he has earned the right to have another season. think we will pick up points in our remaining games and bearing in mind we our most likely 3/4 points from safety I think we could well get very close to 40 points even maybe just over. The only change I would personally consider is, if we have the chance to bring Rafa in, but I would still think it would be harsh on Moyes if that happened.

Deanscaleshammer

If he stays there will be trouble
If he goes it will be double

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I hope Moyes stays. I think he's done a good job with a very thin squad at times. There have been setbacks, but we usually get a good reaction. The players work very hard under him, too.

I've enjoyed watching us play under him, both going forward and (most of the time) looking a little more solid at the back. He hasn't been afraid to use Rice, even in big pressure games, and I don't think he'd be afraid to use any other big talents if he sees enough on the training ground.

He's worked wonders with Arnie. I liked his no nonsense approach when Antonio was late for training. His interviews are always very frank and honest, while I like. He's quite positive, always looking up the table rather than down, too.

I think a club doing its absolute best to keep a manager in place is really vital for player attitudes, too. I often think when a team keeps changing managers (ala Chelsea) the players don't mind throwing strops and throwing in the towel, as they know the manager will be cleared out long before them.

madridhammer

Assuming he keeps us up ,& it's looking like he will, we should offer him a contract.I don't think yet another change will do the players any good & I'd like to see what he can do.Let him clear out what he sees as dead wood & give him some money.I just wish he'd play Hernandez more though & I fear we could lose him if he doesn't get more playing time.

Fortuneseeker

madrid I agree about Javier and with the rumour about Rondon he may well leave which IMHO will be a great pity. We have had players over the years that did very little outside the box but scored a lot I cannot see why Hernandez should be judged on a different set of criteria.

MarkNobleLocalHero

Jorderz, I'm sorry I could only give you one agree (max allowed) but... ;ok ;ok ;ok ;ok ;beer
Sorry the thumb is a right hand one but it'll do

jay_in_cpt

Jorderz let's be honest , with ur username I stopped reading after u state u think he should stay ;wink ;run

Cuz1

Think he should stay for job he’s done but also because he could probably work within the budget given although if he stays I think Hernandez and Carrol goes imo

IronHerb

MIAHammer

Cuz1 said:

Think he should stay for job he’s done but also because he could probably work within the budget given although if he stays I think Hernandez and Carrol goes imo

If he can offload AC he definitely deserves the job!

ASLEFshrugged

If he can offload AC he deserves a knighthood

Vorselaarhammer

Hopefully we can offload him he injuries are systemic...

ASLEFshrugged

His injury record (and his wage packet) is why no other team want him!

baracks_a_hammer

What I don’t get is how AC can emerge unscathed after that ludicrous and frankly brilliant bicycle kick v Palace, yet can step out of the bath and be subsequently sidelined for 3 months...

IronHerb

There you go barracks ;lol

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/dec/12/home-accident-risk-nhs-doctor