Brexit

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  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Barney said:

    many MPs ..... are a disgrace in my view.
    But we all have our own views on this

    I think you'd get unanimity on THIS statement.

    All in favour say Aye ;biggrin
  • BarneyBarney
    edited March 2019
    Aye LOL
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    The majority of Leavers are English.

    The majority of Remainers are also English, 13.3m compared to 2.87m who voted to stay in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    She's just told the nation that she doesn't believe we want a second referendum.

    I think there's a good number of us that do, you teflon lunatic.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    And a lot who don't.
  • stevesteve
    Tried to keep out of this after moving to Canada over 30 years ago (best move I ever made )But you lot voted to get out don't care if some of you did not understand what that ment ,now some of you want another referendum ;doh No you had your vote ,What next at the next election you don't like the result so lets have another one ,or West ham loose a game so lets replay it ............. ;sofa .................... ;hug
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Well, whether people like the result of an election or not, they do get to vote again.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    IronHerb said:

    And a lot who don't.

    So she doesn't actually know.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    IronHerb said:

    And a lot who don't.

    No doubt.

    But she shouldn't claim to speak for 'us' when she isn't prepared to hear 'our' voice now that we've had nearly three years to contemplate the effects of Brexit.

    Steve - I strongly believe the goalposts have moved so much since the original advisory, non-binding referendum that the final decision should be made by the people it will affect the most.

    General Elections are different; they're based on a clear mandate of what each party stands for and what they plan to do. The referendum was a far too simplistic 'in' or 'out'. Now we've heard nearly three years of debate and numerous reports on what Brexit actually means, I think it needs a final ratification by the electorate.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    steve

    Who are the 'you lot'?

    Certainly not me.

    I thought it was wrong then, and still do. I see nothing amiss in trying to prevent something I believe will be very damaging from being enacted.

    I find it hard to stomach when the suggestion is made that a referendum tainted by duplicity and illegality somehow now represents the last bastion of democracy, and that a deal that no one voted for is now magically the will of the people.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Steve
    Tried to keep out of this after moving to Canada over 30 years ago

    You're not trying hard enough.
  • stevesteve
    grey,when I said you lot I ment the majority who voted to leave and some who know seem to be wanting to change there minds.am getting a bit fed up that some part of the human race seem to think they are owed a second chance in everything they deside they don't like .having said that I have had a lot of Canadian ;redwine which does not have some kind of European duty on it ;biggrin not my intention to upset anyone on here just people that are not on here ;biggrin
  • stevesteve
    Bubbles ,really did try in fact have tried for over two years Don't know what got into me today ..oh yes I do ;redwine ;redwine ;redwine
  • imagelostimagelost
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    Barney, are you saying that you voted Remain but have now become a leaver?
    If so can you say why and what do you see as the benefits in leaving?

    Tell me why we should remain?
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    If there ever was to be a second referendum because some think that voters may or may not have changed their minds since 2016 then to determine if this bears out then only those who were eligible to vote then should be allowed to vote in any second one.
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    My problem, and to be clear I am a remainer, I do not profess to understand the full implications of leaving but looking at 50,000 ft, despite the bureaucracy and inefficiency of the EU which undoubtedly exists, in the listing of largest economies across the globe, we were and are fifth.

    Only the US, China, Japan and Germany have larger economies than the UK, that tells me that overall we were doing rather well - if it was clear that we were struggling then maybe I would better understand but the truth is that is not the case.

    Immigration, I understand the commitments of EU membership and it is an important issue but looking beyond the fearful headlines, we are uniquely placed as in the event of a truly extraordinary crisis where it was clear that we really needed to protect our borders, we can do so pretty much overnight, we do not have to build a wall, we have a pretty good one in place and despite the inevitable postering over protocols and treaties, there is not much that mainland Europe could do about it.

    For me the best option would be to continue to fight for equitable immigration policy from within the EU.

    Trade - I fail to believe that in leaving the EU, that the EU would make it easy for us, why would they ? and I simply believe that the expectation of negotiating really favorable trade deals as a stand alone entity as unrealistic.

    Defense - we currently have many more admirals than ships, enough said

    In a nutshell I only saw a much larger downside than upside and I never heard a real argument to make me change my mind.

    Ho hum
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    In the event of a No Deal Brexit...
    The UK government has committed to fund healthcare for UK nationals (and others for whom the UK is responsible) who have applied for, or are undergoing, treatments in the EU prior to and on exit day, for up to one year
    After a year they'd either have to pay for their own treatment or return to the UK as would anyone who is currently not receiving treatment but who needed it after Brexit.

    There are around 180k Brit pensioners living in the EU including the ex-Mrs shrugged's mother and step father, both get free prescriptions for various medical problems.

    Let's not have a no-deal Brexit, eh.
  • imagelostimagelost
    Aslef
    How many are MPs or ex MPs
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    edited March 2019
    MPs have to be resident in the UK but I suppose there are probably be a few ex-MPs living permanently in the EU.

    What's your point?
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Thorn, who would vote in the place of the Leavers who have died?
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html
  • imagelostimagelost
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    MPs have to be resident in the UK but I suppose there are probably be a few ex-MPs living permanently in the EU.

    What's your point?

    Curious
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2019
    thornburyiron said:

    If there ever was to be a second referendum because some think that voters may or may not have changed their minds since 2016 then to determine if this bears out then only those who were eligible to vote then should be allowed to vote in any second one.

    You are conflating two issues:
    Finding out if people who voted one way have changed their minds since? I don't know why we need to know this, or what that has to do with how the UK conducts itself on the international stage in future. If you want the answer to the initial question, you'd have to ask them. But a referendum with restricted voting rights wouldn't tell you anyway. As Bubbles points out, some of them aren't around anymore. Furthermore, there were some eligible to vote last time who didn't. If they vote this time, you still won't know if they have changed their minds because you don't know what their minds used to be. So.... my verdict: an idea that's not fit for purpose ;biggrin

  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    2nd issue: What do people want at this point in time, in the light of current circumstances and knowledge.

    I still think referenda are not a particularly good idea, but seeing as one led us to this point we probably need another to either validate or overturn the outcome.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    edited March 2019
    Yesterday somebody put up a petition on parliament's website to revoke Article 50. Any petition that receives more than 100k signatures has to be considered for a debate, by 9am this morning it had received about 600k signatures and was gaining 1500 per minute...and then the website crashed.

    Its back up now with 824k, should be over the million mark around 2pm.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    I know it won't happen, but I'd love it if it got 17.5m signatures...
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    Now this is serious...
    The German firm Wepa said it had been storing an extra 600 tonnes of toilet and kitchen roll in the last three to four months to safeguard supplies in Britain, in case the UK crashes out of the EU without an agreement on 29 March.

    The company has also built six weeks’ supplies of the cardboard core used inside the rolls, as this cannot be sourced from the UK in sufficient quantities and is imported from EU countries in eastern Europe and Scandinavia.

    The firm has also decided to charter ships to take toilet and kitchen roll from a supplier in Naples to Swansea, rather than relying on trucks carrying its products via the Calais-Dover route.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/21/uk-biggest-toilet-roll-supplier-wepa-stockpiling-no-deal-brexit-avoid-customs-delays
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Can I say this on here..

    Up (a certain) creek without a paddle toilet roll ;nonono


    Of course, there's always the Daily Mail. ;wink
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    Yesterday somebody put up a petition on parliament's website to revoke Article 50. Any petition that receives more than 100k signatures has to be considered for a debate, by 9am this morning it had received about 600k signatures and was gaining 1500 per minute...and then the website crashed.

    Its back up now with 824k, should be over the million mark around 2pm.

    at 950k and climbing but slowed down a lot. Should get to a Million though.
  • MoojorMoojor
    edited March 2019
    Yeoldhammer said:

    ASLEFshrugged said:

    Yesterday somebody put up a petition on parliament's website to revoke Article 50. Any petition that receives more than 100k signatures has to be considered for a debate, by 9am this morning it had received about 600k signatures and was gaining 1500 per minute...and then the website crashed.

    Its back up now with 824k, should be over the million mark around 2pm.

    at 950k and climbing but slowed down a lot. Should get to a Million though.
    Kept on crashing for me. Though it's now back up.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    edited March 2019
    Yeold, speeding up again. ;wink
    Compare the rate of increase of both petitions, the revoke A50 is like an F1 car vs a Trabant. ;biggrin
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