Brexit

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  • Possibly driving a train somewhere on the central line. Give him a couple of hours until he arrives back in Leyton. ;beer
  • Will he need time to orient himself?
  • Did someone leave their coat behind? ;yercoat
  • I posted this last week

    From the BBC today:

    "If no-deal is rejected, MPs will vote on Thursday on delaying Brexit by extending Article 50 - the legal mechanism that takes the UK out of the EU.
    The EU has said it would need "a credible justification" before agreeing to any extension."

    My question is if MPs vote to delay Brexit but the EU does not agree to any extension, is the next logical step to revoke Article 50 and would that be decided by Parliament?

    I'm guessing Aslef can answer this


    Aslef, where are you? ;biggrin

    Sorry, got distracted. Got a lot on my plate

    Your question can be divided into two parts.

    Yes, parliament voted to invoke Article 50 so I guess they would have to vote to revoke it.

    No, there is no logical step, logical went out the window when Cameron promised a referendum believing that the Tories wouldn't win a majority in 2015, they'd need the Lib Dems in a coalition again and the Lib Dems would veto it for him.
  • MrsGrey said:

    The Speaker has just said that unless there is significant change to the details or circumstances of the 3rd vote, he won't allow it.
    lol

    Can't wait to see what the Daily Mail call him in tomorrow's headlines.

    IMG_20190319_061015

    They're outraged.

    Who'd have thunk it ;lol
  • Or smirk that says "ooh, that's a nice strong mint". ;biggrin
  • MrsGrey said:

    The Speaker has just said that unless there is significant change to the details or circumstances of the 3rd vote, he won't allow it.
    lol

    Can't wait to see what the Daily Mail call him in tomorrow's headlines.

    IMG_20190319_061015

    They're outraged.

    Who'd have thunk it ;lol
    With any luck that despicable rag will self combust “in a righteous fury “.

  • To be impartial that there are several despicable rags. ;whistle
  • edited March 2019
    Parliament isn't really the problem, imo.

    It's down to the Tories.
    1. Put party politics first, which is why we had a referendum. (Thanks Dave)
    2. Put party ideology first, which is why the PM set the red lines where she did.
    3. Put power within the party first, which is why we had a snap election which ended up giving the DUP the upper hand. (Showing shockingly poor political judgement, imo)
    4. Put party politics first, which is why she caved to the ERG/hardliners and wouldn't compromise over the 'red lines' which might have enabled a revised deal with more support get approved in time. (Strong and stable? I think not.)
    5. Has (today) gone back on her stated intention (which she tried to use to blackmail MPs into voting for her deal) to seek a longer extension to allow something new to be developed that might deliver Brexit, because it would (allegedly) split the party. (Her very own Call-me-Dave moment?)

    ;angry ;angry
  • As much as I voted remain and still believe we should be in the EU.

    I do definitely feel a proper debate and referendum around Europe was needed. ;ok
    Even now I still do think the EU drag their feet way too much and have kicked a few "problem cans" down the road that they do not intend to deal with before its inevitably too late.
  • The public voted out - parliament should deliver. Against what I wanted at the time but have changed my mind and would be OK with a no deal Brexit. Time to talk about other major issues which need addressing rather than Brexit all the time.
  • The 'public' didn't specify a date, nor did they say what their post-Brexit priorities or red lines would be.

    Which is why I disagree with the view that Parliament 'isn't delivering'.

    Parliament has been given a destination, but no directions or map.
  • Barney, are you saying that you voted Remain but have now become a leaver?
    If so can you say why and what do you see as the benefits in leaving?
  • I've just read that the letter asking for an extension specified 30 June, despite being advised by the Commission President that 23 May would have to be the cut-off date if they didn't want to have MEP election. ;doh

    It's like anything she doesn't want to hear just gets ignored ;puzzled
  • So basically this latest mess is Parliament and The Speakers fault. No-one else's.

    Definitely not hers.

    Or the ERGs.

    And she 'shares the frustration of the people' . Maybe she should realise that she's the cause of it for a lot of us.
  • Putting the 'may' into mayhem.
  • bubbles, I took it to mean Barney was a dealer ;wink
  • Bubbles - My original decision was marginal as I was already fed up with the wastage in the EU and the fact that, in my view, the EU is about the French and Germans running things perhaps for their own benefit. I was persuaded to vote stay because of the free market, human rights and labour rights. However since then I have been more and more concerned with the growth in control which goes beyond what I believe the EU is for; I also dont like being told what do do on imigration.
    Benefits of leaving - taking control of our borders ( I am a supporter of controlled imigration); money to spend on what we chose; freedom to trade with the rest of the world ( I believe this is a major selling point) and cutting out a huge layer of bureaucracy.
    Most important to me is that the public voted to exit and I I believe in democracy. I see the arguments about we did not know what we are letting ourselves in for hence another vote etc. but we don't know what we are letting ourselves in for at a general election due to 'economics with the truth' and we dont have a second vote on that.
    I think it is each to their own on this but we wont know whether the decision is right or wrong for many years to come.
    I want out and I want it now - there are so many issues which are not getting enough focus in parliament and it is time to stop all the stupid politics and respect the voters wish.
    Hope this helps. I have avoided numbers/details as they are all suspect but I am happy that my view has changed.
  • Barney,
    -did you know that immigration policy is decided upon by the country, and the UK is one of the only member countries who didn't/doesn't demand that non-EU members have maximum 3 months before they get a job with a specified minimum salary, or show an income to provide this figure? The UK always had control of its borders, it simply chose not to control them.
    -Did you also know that as one of a bloc of 500 million people, it is immensely easier to negotiate trade deals which are often better than one negotiated by a market of maximum 60 million people? From 1st April, countries will have to decide whether they want to trade with the EU market, or a competing UK market.

    While I believe the referendum decision was reached unfairly (Leave.eu overspending, and accepting donations from foreign sources), and while I think the government of the time made no effort to educate voters before putting a stupidly simple and inaccurate question on the ballot, I do agree with you that the people of the UK have voted for this, and so deserve to get it as soon as possible.
    A lot of English people are going to learn that Britain no longer has an empire.
  • A lot of English people will learn that there will soon no longer be a UK.
  • "A lot of English people are going to learn that Britain no longer has an empire."

    What a strange thing to say. ;hmm
  • edited March 2019
    Herb, unless you're being disingenuous.

    The majority of Leavers are English.
    Many Leavers' comments on, for example, BBC HYS hark back to "a Golden Age of Empire" implying or worse, believing, that Brexit will deliver it.
    So actually not so strange.
  • Not disingenuous but I haven't heard anyone harking on about the Empire and a few comments on the BBC isn't really conclusive.
  • edited March 2019
    .
  • So the timescale now, having heard what the EU has said about the letter/extension request:

    Parliament will get another chance to vote on the deal (yes, that one, that they have rejected twice already) 'next week. (Remember, we leave on Friday)

    If it passes, a short extension would be granted to give the UK time to do all the paperwork.

    ....

    So do we infer that is the deal is voted down, we leave on 29th without a deal?

    Disgraceful handling of affairs, imo. She has deliberately run down the clock, to blackmail MPs.

    And on a personal note - not that it is very significant in the great scheme of things - I'll be in Italy on Friday, and may need an (at the moment) totally non-existent visa to get back to Greece on Monday.
  • edited March 2019
    There's an implication, of course, that a LONG extension might be forthcoming if there was some 'new event'. ;pray
  • IronHerb said:

    Not disingenuous but I haven't heard anyone harking on about the Empire and a few comments on the BBC isn't really conclusive.

    Nobody used the word "Empire" (I don't think even Boris Johnson is that stupid), but a lot of people have spent the last three years explaining with no evidence that the rest of Europe needs a deal more than the UK, and that the rest of the world will be falling over each other to sign a trade deal with the UK. Indeed, most of then Foreign Minister Boris Johnson's first ports of call were ex-colonies.
  • .


    A very good point.
  • IronHerb said:

    Not disingenuous but I haven't heard anyone harking on about the Empire and a few comments on the BBC isn't really conclusive.

    Nobody used the word "Empire" (I don't think even Boris Johnson is that stupid), but a lot of people have spent the last three years explaining with no evidence that the rest of Europe needs a deal more than the UK, and that the rest of the world will be falling over each other to sign a trade deal with the UK. Indeed, most of then Foreign Minister Boris Johnson's first ports of call were ex-colonies.

    Herb, unless you're being disingenuous.

    The majority of Leavers are English.
    Many Leavers' comments on, for example, BBC HYS hark back to "a Golden Age of Empire" implying or worse, believing, that Brexit will deliver it.
    So actually not so strange.


    Knew I'd seen it somewhere. ;wink
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