Brexit

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  • edited April 2019
    So, thorn, you think that Channel 4 reporters are lying?

    You don't believe that Aaron Banks and Leave.eu did what was alleged?

    Are you saying that Channel 4 made up the evidence?

    (I'm assuming you took the trouble to watch the video.)
  • The same channel 4 that is obsessed with nudity and shows programs such as Naked Attraction and this week had a program on school swap where they deliberately had 15 white kids put into a class of 15 Asian kids and encouraged both groups to treat the other as aliens. They were also encouraged to compile lists of the most vile racist insults they could muster.

    I'm not sure why this programme would make Channel 4 'untrustworthy'?

    (Out of curiosity, did you watch he programme? I haven't, but have read various reviews, so I'm aware of some of the content and some of the controversy).
  • I watched part of the program but stopped because I thought the whole premise was pointless and did not serve any purpose.
  • edited April 2019
    I understood the premise to be (or at least the aim of the experiment to see if) that if you got people together they might realise that some of their (racist, and other) preconceptions were false?
  • Mr G. I think that Aaron Banks is a particularly odious character, and I would think the vast, vast majority of leave voters would agree. However, to me, Blair, Mandelson and Campbell are equally odious, and it could be argued that they have the blood of hundreds of thousands on their hands. Odious or not, Farage, who had a close relationship with Banks (but has now distanced himself) in a recent Yougov poll came out ahead of Labour, The Tories, the Libdems etc etc etc with Change UK (please!) languishing in last place. Rather than trying to discredit (not aimed at you) and smear the leave campaign and voters why don`t the current incumbents (ALL MAIN SITTING PARTIES INCLUDING THE SNP) come out with some positive solutions. Cancelling Brexit and going back to how we were/are is madness. But that is what the vast majority of them seem to want.

    Happy Easter :champagne:
  • I don't see it as smearing, if it is reporting the truth, and if it is discrediting, then that is probably the point.

    I would have thought those who claim an interest in the state of democracy in the UK would be seriously concerned by such reports.
  • edited April 2019
    What about the remainers that was trying to get voters to tick the box in pencil,?
  • Well, yeah. Otherwise what were we going to do with the 3 million people we had hired to fake all the ballot papers in advance of the count? Not to mention the 6 million rubbers :nonono:
  • edited April 2019
    imagelost said:

    What about the remainers that was trying to get voters to tick the box in pencil,?


    But seriously, this never happened.

    it was Brexiters who urged voters to use a pen (based on a conspiracy theory).

    Nobody said voters should use pencil.

    Voting booths traditionally provide pencils to use, but voters have always been able to use their own pen, pencil or, indeed, crayon.

    Remainers absolutely didn't ever urge voters to use any particular implement.

    #fakenews
  • edited April 2019
    So my wife lied to me!
    About being asked to use a pencil!!
  • edited April 2019
    From Frankie Boyle's New World Order last night

    "Britain is slowly starting to face up to its true status in the world, as a sort of tramp's liver that the European body is rejecting". :lol:

    Odious or not, Farage, who had a close relationship with Banks (but has now distanced himself) in a recent Yougov poll came out ahead of Labour, The Tories, the Libdems etc etc etc with Change UK (please!) languishing in last place.

    So what? The poll was for voting intentions in the European elections, UKIP (with Farage) were ahead in the polls before the 2014 Euro Elections and went on to win the largest share of the votes - 26.6%, Lab 24.4%, Con 23.1% - but it never transfers into votes in a General Election.

    A year later they only got 12.6% (a distant third behind Labour 30.4% and the Tories 36.8%).

    The turnout for the Euro Elections has never been higher than 38.5%, in 1999 it was as low as 24%. They're not much of a guide to what the country is thinking.
    imagelost said:

    So my wife lied to me!
    About being asked to use a pencil!!

    Okay details. Who asked your wife to use a pencil? Where? When?
  • edited April 2019

    From Frankie Boyle's New World Order last night

    "Britain is slowly starting to face up to its true status in the world, as a sort of tramp's liver that the European body is rejecting". :lol:

    Odious or not, Farage, who had a close relationship with Banks (but has now distanced himself) in a recent Yougov poll came out ahead of Labour, The Tories, the Libdems etc etc etc with Change UK (please!) languishing in last place.

    So what? The poll was for voting intentions in the European elections, UKIP (with Farage) were ahead in the polls before the 2014 Euro Elections and went on to win the largest share of the votes - 26.6%, Lab 24.4%, Con 23.1% - but it never transfers into votes in a General Election.

    A year later they only got 12.6% (a distant third behind Labour 30.4% and the Tories 36.8%).

    The turnout for the Euro Elections has never been higher than 38.5%, in 1999 it was as low as 24%. They're not much of a guide to what the country is thinking.
    imagelost said:

    So my wife lied to me!
    About being asked to use a pencil!!

    Okay details. Who asked your wife to use a pencil? Where? When?
    Aslef
    Some people was handing out flyers
    Stating use a pencil
    The police was called and some them had helpthe police with there inquires,,,I was told it’s Civil matter not criminal matter.
    I kept one flyers I used it as book marker,,
  • And these people were? Where were they?
  • imagelost said:


    I kept one flyers I used it as book marker,,

    Could you take a photo and post it?
  • Did I say it is police matter
  • edited April 2019
    The police was called and some them had helpthe police with there inquires,,,I was told it’s Civil matter not criminal matter
    If there's been nothing done since May 2016 then its highly unlikely its still a police matter any more.

    Don't understand how it could be a civil matter as that would be someone suing someone else for damages so nothing to do with the police. If they were breaking the laws covering elections then that's criminal and it would have been a police matter.
  • edited April 2019
    Don't understand why you can't show us a picture of your bookmark?

    However, in the absence of any evidence, I haven't changed my view on 'pencilgate'.

    It's a baseless conspiracy theory.

    Having said that, for anyone who believes such a fraudulent scheme is plausible, can you be sure that LEAVE didn't carry out such a fraud? :wink:
  • MrsGrey said:

    Don't understand why you can't show us a picture of your bookmark?

    However, in the absence of any evidence, I haven't changed my view on 'pencilgate'.

    It's a baseless conspiracy theory.

    Having said that, for anyone who believes such a fraudulent scheme is plausible, can you be sure that LEAVE didn't carry out such a fraud? :wink:

    My friends, sisters brothers half uncle claims that it was actually leave campaigners with remain placards handing out pencils and telling people to bring their voting slips back to them to hand in.
  • Can you prove that?
  • Can you disprove it :wahoo:
  • edited April 2019
    The Electoral Commissions report "An Evaluation of Electoral Administration at the EU Referendum" interviewed polling station staff on how things went. Under the section "Polling Day" it states
    66. There was some evidence of inappropriate behaviour or intimidation at polling stations by campaigners in the survey, with a third of respondents suggesting that there was a challenge of some degree.

    Qualitative comments described how this could include displaying campaign posters, or handing out leaflets close to polling stations. It is important to note that this is often a matter of differences in perception, with what campaigners may see as legitimate campaign efforts seen differently by voters.

    Yet, in some instances cars were parked outside polling stations containing the campaign material. One CO said that they had ‘several instances of tellers having to be moved on due to their intimidation of the electorate.’ In another counting area:

    We had one incident where a supporter of the exit campaign parked a car and the individual used a speaker to hail abuse at voters entering one polling station at [Location given]. Due to the attitude of the individual campaigning for exit Polling staff were advised to ring the Police but the incident passed before the Police arrived and it was not repeated.

    Some COs reported, however, that the actions were often ‘”new” [campaigners] and were not familiar with the 'do's and don'ts'.’

    67. When the affiliation of the agents involved in problems was cited by COs, they were all identified as leave campaigners.
    So no reports from the staff of any Remain "agents" acting inappropriately at or near polling stations.

    As in the instance we are discussing the police were called and talked to the "agents" distributing leaflets then its fair to assume that the incident would have been recorded.
  • The only issue I've been able to find over pro-Remain leaflets were those sent out with postal ballots by Bristol City Council. The Leave campaign objected to them, the Electoral Commission upheld the complaint and the remaining (no pun intended) leaflets were pulped.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36411509
  • MrsGrey said:

    Can you disprove it :wahoo:

    Well, if you tell me the name of the friends sisters half uncle then I'll ask him. :biggrin:
  • The police was called and some them had helpthe police with there inquires,,,I was told it’s Civil matter not criminal matter
    If there's been nothing done since May 2016 then its highly unlikely its still a police matter any more.

    Don't understand how it could be a civil matter as that would be someone suing someone else for damages so nothing to do with the police. If they were breaking the laws covering elections then that's criminal and it would have been a police matter.
    I thought is criminal matter,,, unless it is part of some else that’s on going
  • edited April 2019
    MrsGrey said:

    Can you disprove it :wahoo:


    Anyone can make and print flyers
    Stating “only use a pencil “
    Even me !!!

    I do a postal vote ,,, I herd you may have do it online?


    Any way back pencilgate you only have to goggle it to find it’s not a one off.
  • imagelost said:
    Image, I'm not sure that helps to prove your point earlier about remainers trying to get people to use a pencil?

    Based on the fact it states that pencils are made available within all polling stations to be used.

    So of course it's not a one off, every single polling station in the country has pencils for people to make their ballot paper for the reasons that it states in that article.
  • edited April 2019
    image - I am aware of the many conspiracies around pencils, in connection with the referendum. That was never disputed.

    As moojor says, the article actually works against your argument.

    The article also points out what I referred to earlier: you can use whatever implement you like, if you don't want to use the pencil provided in the booth.

    It also makes clear the rules around sealing ballot boxes, and how these make fraud extremely difficult.

  • Who say what against,,,
    At the end of day,,, we have a vote.
    Like it or not.
    We will not be bullied or be bullied into anyone thinking,, With our freedom of speech or retaliation
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