Brexit

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  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2019
    I see that despite having put her deal to the vote and had the answer 'No' she brought it back again yesterday, and had it voted down again. And now we hear that there might be a 3rd 'meaningful vote' - ie, she'll present the same deal again in the hope that some MPs will, based on new information and changing circumstances, finally vote Yes.

    But, we can't have a new referendum, because that would be ignoring the will of the people.

    ;hmm

    Would you like hypocrisy with your irony, or do you take it plain?
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    At a slight tangent, but perhaps explaining how we originally got into this mess, this is illuminating:
    https://www.bbc.com/ideas/videos/the-devious-art-of-disinformation/p06dn741?playlist=a-brief-history-of
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Boris Johnson, the former foreign secretary, claims the EU would come up with a new deal by 29 March.
    In an interview on LBC Radio, he said: "I covered a lot of EU summits, I have been to a lot of them in my time, I have seen how the EU works.
    "The horses always change places in the final furlong, it's always at five minutes to midnight that the real deal is done.

    "In Brussels, the real fix is always in at the end."

    That's quite an analogy from Boris the Buffoon, comparing Brexit with a horse race - some gamble. And this is the fool who would be PM. ;angry
  • HammerexHammerex
    Comparing a horse race you say Bubbles, well I can remember Foinavon
    winning the 1967 Grand National at the odds of 100/1, so miracles can
    happen, but most unlikely.
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    Season 3 of Brexit of Thrones should be good. I hear a possibly major character being killed off politically and the fall of an alliance.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Yeold, I was almost questioning "politically" but then realised that was too far. ;biggrin
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    He doesn't know when to stop digging that hole, does he.
    To think that he made such a difference to the Quitters' campaign disgusts me and it should have the same effect on Quitters, but sadly I know it won't. ;angry

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47560192
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    It was an utterly ridiculous thing to say.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    But he is an utterly ridiculous person.
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    MPs vote to reject no-deal Brexit.

    I was expecting an overwhelming majority in favour of this yet 308 out of 620 (49.7%) ignored all the expert forecasts of a no-deal being an economic disaster and voted for no-deal.
    These are the people who are supposed to put the country first but have instead thought more of their careers. ;angry

    This country and this political system are broken.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Why is this country broken?
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited March 2019
    Two points of note that have made my bile rise tonight:

    1. May reneging on her free vote promise yesterday and instructing her party to vote for no deal

    2. Farage actively lobbying EU colleagues to veto an extension and forcing a cliff-edge no deal

    Utterly despicable, IMO, given the government's own reports on the consequences of no deal.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Farage.

    Beyond contempt.

    #snoutintrough
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    MrsGrey said:

    Farage.

    Beyond contempt.

    #snoutintrough

    This is a man who tonight was criticising the 'career political class'.

    He's been in politics for the last 20 years.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    And hardly ever carries out any of his MEP responsibilities. Apart from bank his cheque and vote for a big pension.
  • BarneyBarney
    Surely the purpose of keeping no deal on the table is a bargaining chip. Nobody wants it but what have we got left to get a bit more from the EU.
    That said I am beginning to think that no deal is better than allowing 'The House' to continue playing games for personal and political reasons.
    What is the point of democracy if they dont do what has been decided by the people?
  • HammerwombatHammerwombat
    Im a bit scared and not entirely comfortable with the situation we find ourselves in. I’m not a fan of any politician, I find most of them to be joyless unpleasant sycophants, but every few years I have to vote for something or somebody. Can somebody draw me a freakin’ picture of what I have to do next.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    I don't know how much the threat of no deal has pushed the EU to give us favourable terms in the withdrawal agreement.

    On the face of it, not too much.

    But having put to parliament the very best deal the govt could wangle with ' no deal' as a threat and been told twice it's not good enough .. and with only 16 days to go...

    aren't we a bit past worrying about what threat we can hold over them?

  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited March 2019
    She's trying to get her vote through again ;lol Meaningful Vote 3 now being put forward for next week.

    What's the definition of insanity? ;hmm

    We have some very reckless people at the head of our Parliament.
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    As far as the EU are concerned there was never a threat of no deal because they could see every day MPs saying that no deal had to be taken off the table so they knew we didn’t really mean it.
    No different to when Cameron went in 2016 and said “I want us to stay and if there’s a vote it will be to remain so you don’t really need to offer us anything”.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    Ocs, will be interesting to see if she is allowed to bring the same proposal back for another vote. Parliamentary rules of procedure say that if MPs vote something down, you can't just bring the same thing back again for another vote. The Speaker can apply the rules and prevent the vote.
  • MIAHammerMIAHammer
    Barney said:



    What is the point of democracy if they dont do what has been decided by the people?

    Because sometimes the people need to be protected from themselves.

    This should never have been put at the people’s door. It was too important and too complicated.
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    There is a question of what is the bigger threat to democracy,

    I believe it's more important for democracy to send the message that if you win by promising things you cannot deliver you do not get to lift the trophy. This ends populism.


    The only thing for sure is that very soon the trades descriptions people will be onto us as never have two adjectives been more inappropriately used as in 'Great' Britain and 'United' Kingdom. Utter shambles.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    MIAHammer said:

    Barney said:



    What is the point of democracy if they dont do what has been decided by the people?

    Because sometimes the people need to be protected from themselves.

    This should never have been put at the people’s door. It was too important and too complicated.
    And there are different kinds of democracy. And limitations on who can participate.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    These are the people who are supposed to put the country first but have instead thought more of their careers. ;angry

    Alternatively they were voting to represent their constituents, the majority of who voted to leave.
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    This country and this political system are broken.

    Our political system is not that much different from any other country although it could certainly do with a bit of tinkering around with.

    The UK still has the 5th highest GDP (just ahead of France and India) and the economy is still in a better state than it was in 2009 (we were 6th behind France 2008-2014).

    Not broken but certainly limping a bit.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited March 2019
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    Alternatively they were voting to represent their constituents, the majority of who voted to leave.

    But voting against no-deal isn't betraying their leave-voting constituents. They aren't saying don't leave.

    And anyway, MPs vote in line with party policy once they've been elected, never mind what the constitutents want on any one issue. (Usually, anyway.)
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    MrsGrey said:

    And anyway, MPs vote in line with party policy once they've been elected, never mind what the constitutents want on any one issue. (Usually, anyway.)

    Not necessarily, unless a vote is whipped then MPs can and do vote as their conscience dictates.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ;ok Free votes are quite rare, though - hence my 'usually'.
  • SlackerSlacker
    So the latest this morning is that the attorney general (Cox) may try to smooch the ERG with “revised “ legal advice which may allow the UK to leave the backstop agreement unilaterally.
    This coming after his in depth and solemn advice on Tuesday informed The House that legally we could not.
    Does anyone else see through this cheap trick?
    “I know what I said but you didn’t like it, so how about this?”
    No better than a car showroom salesman.
    This government............
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Trouble is there’s a huge disconnect between voters and MPs. Of those who voted 52% were for leave but about 80% of MPs want to remain.
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