Brexit

MrsGrey

Nothing surprises me any more.

BubblesNeverDies

Another in the series "You couldn't make it up"

And if she's 62, I'll eat my muck laden wellies. ;biggrin

Slacker

Are we Europe’s thickest nation?Reading that and some other stuff I’ve seen attributed to ex pats in Spain,we must be a complete laughing stock.

BubblesNeverDies

Slacker, I'd say that would be a reasonable assumption.

IronHerb

OK, let's knock ourselves cos we are so good at that. I wonder how many people were interviewed until they got the response they wanted?

Slacker

‘buff said.

thornburyiron

Just check the government website with advice to asylum seekers and you’ll see why they want to come here.

MrsGrey

There's a difference between asylum seekers and immigrants. The terms are not interchangeable and different rules apply.

Conflating the two is a basic error.

Whenever people get them mixed up, I'm always inclined to take no further notice of their opinion on either issue.

thornburyiron

Aren’t people from outside the EU meant to apply for asylum and more to the point at the first safe country they enter.

MrsGrey

The UKs asylum law is governed by international law. Leaving the EU won't make any difference to the UK's laws on asylum seekers.

thornburyiron

So why aren’t the French offering houses, free medical care etc etc to those people in Calais.
The point I’m making which seems to be being ignored is that people traffickers are armed with these facts and it’s little wonder that they are desperate to get here for what they can get.
I presume that anyone who goes to Greece and seeks asylum are given a house

IronHerb

I wouldn't like to live in France.

imagelost

IronHerb said:

I wouldn't like to live in France.

Suckreblair,,,
Why
Seam to be a group of people,, that stand by each other

whupathman

I have many expat friends moaning about foreigners ruining the country, duh tempted to give them a mirror for Christmas

MrsGrey

thornburyiron said:

The point I’m making which seems to be being ignored is that people traffickers are armed with these facts and it’s little wonder that they are desperate to get here for what they can get.

Thorn, being in or out of the EU will make absolutely no difference.

The UK laws on immigration for people coming from outside the EU are set by the UK. Always have been. The EU has no power to affect this. Never had.

Membership of the EU is utterly irrelevant.

To anyone who voted Leave because they think it will give the UK more power to reduce/stop non-EU citizens coming to the UK, all I can say is ;doh

thornburyiron

I wasn’t talking about leaving the EU or how that would affect anything. I was kind of responding to the post about Syrians, Africans etc and merely stating that whilst they are promised almost anything they will continue to try to come here.
Think what would happen if a house, free prescriptions, free glasses etc were promised to everybody already here who have to pay for these things.
There’s obviously a strong reason why none of these people are willing to seek asylum in whichever country they first reach or is there a case for stating that no country in the EU is a safe haven.

SuzanneClaret

So shortly after the vote I was sat in my GP waiting room and I over hear a couple discussing the result...

Her 'so please we are leaving the EU, I'm sick of all these illegal immigrants’
Him 'yeah, it will be good to not be surrounded by all these foreigners’

16 year old English lass with three kids walks in and starts yelling at the receptionist about her child not being able to see a doctor immediately.

Her ‘won’t have such a huge wait to see the GP with all the foreigners gone’.

My name is called and as I get up to see my doctor I say to them ‘you are right, there will no waiting in here but it will because if your wishes come true (zero foreigners) there will be no GPs at the practice. They would have ALL had to go home!

It’s like swimming against a tide of treacle…

MrsGrey

I'll back out of this discussion at this point. I'm only interested in issues around Brexit.

For me, there's too much prejudice, misinformation and downright lies on the subject of immigration and asylum.

But for anybody interested, who wants to discuss it based on the facts (rather than what the Daily Mail says), here's a link. https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

You'll notice that they aren't all 'promised a house' and they MAY get HELP with glasses. They can't choose where they live. They get £37.75 per week to live on.

TheMadcapLaughs

Lets all condescend, mock, deride, patronise and sneer at the thick people shall we. Lets just forget Brexit, turn the clock back and carry on as we were. More "Europe" and more "Globalisation". Let the people that know what they`re doing, you know the smart ones, like May, Macron, Merkel, Junker etc etc etc carry on "undisturbed". Because things have been going swimmingly, haven`t they? The large multinationals, the corporate gangsters and shysters, the bankers, money men, and the army of politicians and bureaucrats keep telling us this is the way forward. Well it is. For them. Doing very nicely out of it. These people have spent years and years ignoring and sidelining the ordinary people. The thick people. And now they stand surprised at Brexit, at Trump, at the insidious spread of Fascism. The Fascists now have a toehold in parliaments across mainland Europe. The Spanish government is rounding up and imprisoning Catalan politicians and anyone that dare even hint at a "free" Catalonia. Macron is surprised, that after giving massive tax breaks to the super rich, whilst at the same time squeezing the rest a little harder, some have burst. Tear gas and rubber bullets should sort that though. For years and years these politicians have been pursuing agendas on behalf of big business and the super rich. As a result big business and the super rich are becoming richer, the rest of us are paying, and as a result becoming poorer. If anyone has ever dared to question or challenge those at the top they are immediately lambasted and ridiculed as thick and racist. You voted for Brexit, your car plant is closing down, you are now unemployed, ergo "it`s your fault". Not those that have been in power for the last umpteen years, can`t be anything to do with them, they`re the clever ones.

I don`t care why people voted for Brexit, it doesn`t matter. Yes it may make us feel a little better, a little bit superior to know that we have a better grasp of the complexities of government and the future consequences of our actions. What is important is that enough people took the trouble to vote us out of a system that clearly wasn`t working for them. People want change, the vote to leave The EU gave people the opportunity for change, they took it. Apparently Brexit has emboldened the far right in this country, yet at the same time some of the leading lights in Europe, its heart so to speak, are electing openly Fascist/Nazi parties into their parliaments, Italy, France, Spain, Germany. Doesn`t that seem odd?? I thought all was rosy with The EU and we are the fools to leave.

Mock the thick Brexiteers all you like, some of the reasons are funny, ill informed, counter intuitive, but ignore them, as is so often the case, at your peril. That is what has happened. The Chavs have been ignored across Europe. The Chavs are fighting back.

OldCastleSwift

Will you please stop bringing facts and logic to the debate, Mrs G. It's not the West Ham (606) Way...

;wink

MrsGrey

Well, at least once we leave there'll be no more of that pesky Dutch elm disease.

;carew

Colchester_Iron

Will I still be able to use my continental quilt?

MrsGrey

No.

You'll have to get a candlewick bedspread.

grey_til_I_dye

Madcap

By all means say how you feel, but I find your claims to speak for the great unwashed dubious to say the least.

As to

I don`t care why people voted for Brexit, it doesn`t matter.

I couldn't disagree more.

If people voted (one way or the other) because of lies they were told and believed, I think that is extremely worrying.

If people voted Leave (I don't know that any did, this is hypothetical) because they thought that it would bring about a Britain more suited to their racist beliefs, I would find that hugely worrying.

“The last act is the greatest treason. To do the right deed for the wrong reason.”

TheMadcapLaughs

Why dubious???

We always vote based on what we are told, (and not everything we are told is true), and our own inherent prejudices. Whats new??

If every one of the 17.4 million voted to stop immigration wholesale what then?? Carry on ignoring. Sweeping peoples genuine concerns (however unsavoury you may perceive them to be) under the carpet doesn`t work.

That`s why we are in this mess. Mocking people for their views, however misjudged or seemingly ridiculous, has got us where we are today.

There is an air of superiority and smugness around the Brexit debate that I find a little nauseating.





;lol ;doh

grey_til_I_dye

OK

Let's say 'totally unconvincing'.

Speak for yourself, and let others do the same.

MrsGrey

I

TheMadcapLaughs said:

That`s why we are in this mess. Mocking people for their views, however misjudged or seemingly ridiculous, has got us where we are today.

So not capitalism, then?

MrsGrey

TheMadcapLaughs said:

If anyone has ever dared to question or challenge those at the top they are immediately lambasted and ridiculed as thick and racist.

This is so evidently not true.

MrsGrey

TheMadcapLaughs said:

What is important is that enough people took the trouble to vote us out of a system that clearly wasn`t working for them. People want change, the vote to leave The EU gave people the opportunity for change, they took it.

But none of the things that you highlight as being 'wrong' (free market capitalism, globalisation, Conservative policies, a system that favours the rich at the expense of the poor) are going to change.

You say you don't care why people voted Leave - reading your post it comes across as whatveer their stated reasons, you would just dismiss these anyway and impute to them your own.

TheMadcapLaughs

Mrs G, the Brexit mess. There has been an undercurrent of anti-EU (not the common market) feeling for years. There have been concerns raised around immigration for years. Remember Gordon and the "bigoted" lady. All ignored.

Capitalism is a whole other kettle of fish. But it is no coincidence that the policies and agendas pursued by Europe and the rest of the "free" World have enriched the few whilst the majority have floundered.

If The EU is the answer, why is there a rise of extremist politics and civil unrest across the continent. What is SO good about the EU (the bloated autocratic bureaucratic mess, not the continent and its people) that makes us fools to leave.