Brexit

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  • imagelostimagelost
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    You mean 37% of the electorate? Not mine.

    Where that come from?
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    edited January 2019
    Image, you say "our" vote.
    It was only 37% of those eligible to vote (in June 2016) who voted to leave, so not exactly "our" vote, and definitely not my vote.
    You got it right in your first sentence.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    The Irish border question has been thus far represented as an almost insoluble problem that looks likely to de-rail Brexit. I have read a reasonable amount in regards to "the border problem" and (imo) the fears seem a little overblown. As I`ve said earlier, there is no guarantee that there will ever be a need for any type of border controls, if the politicians on both sides (the UK and EU) get their acts together (hahaha) then with reasonable trade agreements and, failing that, the use of super clever technology the threat of a hard border is simply that, a threat. In a worse case scenario, where border checks for goods are introduced, then to use this as an excuse, or as an incitement to violence, is (imo), mind boggling. Yes, a hard border is a backward step, I don`t disagree with anyone on that, but I can`t see it returning us to the bad old days where we are "at war". The following article puts this far better than I can, I know most will not agree with it, but it is an alternate and (imo) a valid view:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-irish-border-is-the-eus-problem-not-ours/
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited January 2019
    TheMadcapLaughs said:

    As I`ve said earlier, there is no guarantee that there will ever be a need for any type of border controls,

    But there is also no guarantee that there won't. That's the sticking point at the moment.

    So we can hope for the best, but the Agreement ('Deal') has to plan for the worst.

    And there isn't enough support for the 'just in case' provisions.

    Of course, if the DUP or the hard-line anti-EU MPs were of your mind, they'd just go 'meh, I'm sure it will all work out OK in the end' and give it the ;ok
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    MrsGrey, the Micawber Principle ;biggrin
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    This is what gets me about the concept of the EU. A one rule fits all approach. The Republic of Ireland is opposed to a hard border, the UK is opposed to a hard border, the EU is opposed to a hard border, but because of rules (that we all agree on are bent to suit) that bind 28 different nations, we MUST have a hard border between The Republic and Northern Ireland. If there is a MUST I personally still don`t think it needs to be catastrophic and permanent. If the will of the three interested parties is all against using and maintaining a hard border, then surely by common logic all parties will come to an agreement that negates the need for a permanent hard border. Or am I being naive.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    BubblesNeverDies said:

    MrsGrey, the Micawber Principle ;biggrin

    I had to Google that. No wonder most of us are bloomping miserable.............
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    TheMadcapLaughs said:

    This is what gets me about the concept of the EU. A one rule fits all approach. The Republic of Ireland is opposed to a hard border, the UK is opposed to a hard border, the EU is opposed to a hard border, but because of rules (that we all agree on are bent to suit) that bind 28 different nations, we MUST have a hard border between The Republic and Northern Ireland.

    No, we could have a (slighly soggy) border between the British mainland and the island of Ireland.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    Oh, just realised, there`s two meanings. I was looking at the £20 one. Just seen the second one. Agree with him on both. Shrewd observer Mr Dickens.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    MrsGrey said:

    TheMadcapLaughs said:

    This is what gets me about the concept of the EU. A one rule fits all approach. The Republic of Ireland is opposed to a hard border, the UK is opposed to a hard border, the EU is opposed to a hard border, but because of rules (that we all agree on are bent to suit) that bind 28 different nations, we MUST have a hard border between The Republic and Northern Ireland.

    No, we could have a (slighly soggy) border between the British mainland and the island of Ireland.
    That`s already a border Mrs G. We`ve had The Micawber Principle just now. Well there is an oft used Madcap principle. "If its too deep to paddle across, its a border"
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    The Spectator?

    A right-wing, free market, conservative, anti-EU magazine owned by the Barclay Brothers who also own the Telegraph? Boris Johnson used to be the editor.

    Yeah, there's an unbiased opinion.. ;lol
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Aslef, funny you should mention that, what with Madcap being an anarchist and all. ;biggrin
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    Never mentioned anything about it being unbiased. I offered it up as an alternate opinion. Everything written thus far in regards to Brexit is nothing more and nothing less than opinion since it hasn`t happened yet. Bubbles, you need to read up a little on the various strains of Anarchism. There is a strong liberal/laissez faire (a proper free market) tradition within Anarchism that would align some thought closer to Rees-Mogg and Boris than Comrade Corbyn. ;ok
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Madcap, and as far as Reet-Smug is concerned, I imagine there would be a very strong master/servant tradition. ;ok
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    Bubbles, you are not wrong, can`t stand the bloke. But, from a purely philosophical standpoint, laissez faire "capitalists" are a lot closer to traditional Anarchist thought I.E. the starting point being that the individual is sovereign (to coin a phrase) than a dyed in the wool state socialist. Yes, most Anarchists would identify as left leaning, but Lenin would be equally at odds as Mussolini to all Anarchist thought. Although, I personally, am a big admirer of Marx. ;puzzled
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    edited February 2019
    Madcap, me too.



    ;lol
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Another addition to the "turkeys voting for Christmas" theme, in this case it's people voting to be unemployed.

    Sunderland voted 61% Leave and today comes the proof that all actions have consequences:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-47102708
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/30/it-is-terrible-but-i-still-want-it-crewe-voters-size-up-no-deal-brexit
    “They [Vote Leave] didn’t tell us the true facts....,” he said. “We voted because of immigration and we didn’t realise how poor we would be. It will be terrible but I still want it, because of immigration.”
    ;shakesheadsmiley

  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    What happens when they realise Brexit won't stop immigration ;hmm
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/02/labour-slumps-in-polls-as-tories-open-biggest-lead-since-general-election

    More indication that JC will never win a GE. When will the Party admit it?
  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    edited February 2019
    I think Labour mistook a lot of anti brexit voting in the last election for genuine Corbyn support. My view has not changed in that elections are won by convincing the unaligned to vote for you and I feel whilst the already Labour aligned will of course turn out for JC, and do so more enthusiastically than previous leaders, the unaligned do not trust him enough, Kier Starmer however in my view has the ability to appeal to the unaligned that can bring about the next Labour Govt.

    The Maths for me goes along the lines that there is not one Corbyn voter that wouldn't vote for Starmer, but there are many more unaligned voters who would vote for Starmer than than for Corbyn.

    It is my hope that JC will reflect upon the unlikelihood of him getting elected and allow KS to lead the next election, my fear is they will wait until JC loses it before doing so.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    edited February 2019
    From today's Observer
    A group of disaffected Labour MPs is preparing to quit the party and form a breakaway movement on the political centre ground amid growing discontent with Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership on Brexit and other key issues including immigration, foreign policy and antisemitism.

    The Observer has been told by multiple sources that at least six MPs have been drawing up plans to resign the whip and leave the party soon.
    Any MPs thinking of forming a new party should remember that between 1981 and 1983 29 MPs joined the SDP (28 Labour and one Conservative) but after the 1983 General Election only four of them were still sitting in Parliament.

    Rather ironically one of those MPs, Michael O'Halloran, lost his Islington North seat to the Labour candidate, a local councillor from next-door Haringey by the name of Jeremy Corbyn.
    claretandbluesky said:

    Kier Starmer however in my view has the ability to appeal to the unaligned that can bring about the next Labour Govt.

    Kier Starmer has only been an MP for 3 years, 8 months and 17 days, he doesn't have the experience to run a serious leadership campaign and I suspect he would be the first to admit that.

    The only reason anyone has heard of him is because Corbyn made him Shadow Secretary for Exiting the European Union, he's this year's Dan Jarvis who everyone was saying would be the next "moderate" Labour leader a couple of years ago.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    To coin an old football saying "If your good enough, you're old enough."
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited February 2019
    Latest govt guidance: “For a temporary period, HMRC will allow most goods moving from the listed roll on roll off locations [20 ports including Dover] to leave the UK port or train station before you’ve told us that the goods have arrived.”

    The requirement for importers/hauliers to submit the customs declaration to HMRC in advance will be waived. Ferry companies are being advised to just add a check box to their terms and conditions so the importer can just say 'don't worry, this consignment is fine, and I'll notify the proper authorities and pay all the appropriate taxes later. Honest, guv. '

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-ports-eu-goods-customs-checks-calais-dover-hmrc-theresa-may-a8762591.html

    Excellent. No security worries, trafficking concerns, illegal stowaways or drug importing there then. ;thumbsup

    Thank goodness we're taking back control of our borders!


    Oh.

    Wait.


    ;doh
  • BubblesNeverDiesBubblesNeverDies
    Another in the series "You couldn't make it up" ;lol ;lol
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    From an article about potential healthcare issues for ex pats (NOT Expat...) post Brexit.

    Yvonne Stone, 62, is one of the younger members of the club and tells me she voted for Brexit: "I've been here for three years and have no plans to go back to the UK - but it will depend on what happens.

    "When I voted to leave I didn't think it would change anything for my rights to live here. We like it here and we don't want to go back but if I don't get my pension we might not have a choice."
    When I voted to leave I didn't think it would change anything for my rights to live here.

    Well, no, I mean, why would it? ;doh
  • SuzanneClaretSuzanneClaret
    ;doh
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    ;lol

    Wait. That's an actual quote.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    OCS

    Oh yes.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47214093
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Oh my...
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