Don't understood this forum sometimes because the only comments seem to be allowed are ones that are 'official' or is a 'rule from the club website" etc... "
On a thread that has had around 100 new comments today, suggesting that debate is not allowed or frowned on, or that only 'the party line' is allowed seems a bit strange.
Clearly, this post is self-contradictory, since you and others have been and are free to post what you think.
The reference to 'pointless' was that, in the opinion of many users NOT just MrsG, the non-standing is a done deal, and arguing about what the club should have done or should do will make no difference.
Doesn't mean you can't carry on, just that, in the opinion of many, it will have no impact.
It's like on the transfer speculation when someone posts something they've heard from an ITK and rather than debating that player, the poster is shot down with "no such thing as an ITK, etc etc
Why can't people challenge the source of a rumour?
And how would that stop others from discussing a player if they want to?
Forums aren't about what is "fact " all the time it's about peoples emotions thoughts etc about the club, things to chat about , interesting issues etc... Not just about official statements from the Official site all the time.
People on here are free to post their emotional responses to issues if that is what they want. Others are free to approach an issue with an analytical slant if that is their bent (see what I did there? ;wink )
If people just want a forum where they can vent their views and feelings unchallenged, they are bound to be disappointed on here.
Fair play to you Suze, they should've listened to you and plenty of others from what I'm reading all over forums right now
But they were blinded, by pound notes and ST sales
If this doesn't sort itself out (which it probably will over time) and people are forced to sit all Over because there are kids and families Now in the old Unofficial standing areas (BML/TBL/Chav) then the atmosphere is gone.
We will be the new library. Just like Brady had at her favoured club.
It's just poor planning from the club ... , a quarter of upton park stood.
You can say what the club shoulda coulda done as much as you like. It is pretty much irrelevant. And pointless.
Now this is where I have a problem
The club and DG in particular spout off they are mere custodians of the club, really it's the fans.
If the fans don't bother to point out the wrongs of the club how do we improve? If they don't acknowledge or ask for feedback how do we try and get more right than wrong.
Well if we've suddenly turned into a club that just worries about the numbers and the money, what's the point.
Why have an SAB or anything similar? Nope let's just sit there eat your popcorn and be thankful you've got a seat at the shiny new bowl. Because if you don't there will be someone to replace you and your loyalty of X amount of years.
The number 1 priority should've been to make sure the 26k ST and possibly members were taken care off, not X amount of non-hammers that jumped the queue and ended up on the founders wall because someone at the RC was on a bonus scheme to sell as many tickets as possible whichever way they could (lies, false information etc)
Ok, so let's say hypothetically that the club had managed to seat everybody where they wanted to sit, so that all the people who wanted to stand were all seated together and all the people who wanted to sit were able to sit together. Are the club still to blame when the owners and the operators now insist that everybody has to remain in their seats during the match?
Grey I'm not sure what they can do now apart from follow and endorse what the powers that be have said.
What they should've done is focus a bit more on the paying loyal customer rather than the +2 scheme.
Possibly they could find a ticket swap process to allow people to move into areas that are happily seated or standing, if they don't then this could potentially take years to unravel itself, maybe less of a number of tourist fans or +2 that only came to see what all the fuss was about, move on.
But for anyone to say " oh well that's it, deal with it" is wrong, fans wouldn't of got half they have today without having some kind of voice.
I am truly worried that now the club have the demand, the 52k sold and 30k waiting list, that they switch off knowing that someone will replace you and the atmosphere doesn't take off.
For me, it's up to the club to try and make this right. I am in no way condoning people who stand in front of others with no respect, I wouldn't do it to someone not would I want it done to me.
Preston - on the website the Davids said "the license is for all-seating", this isn't something the owners/operators/Newham council have suddenly sprung on us, this is something that was known from the moment the stadium was granted a license.
It's just poor planning from the club ... , a quarter of upton park stood.
You can say what the club shoulda coulda done as much as you like. It is pretty much irrelevant. And pointless.
Now this is where I have a problem
The club and DG in particular spout off they are mere custodians of the club, really it's the fans.
If the fans don't bother to point out the wrongs of the club how do we improve?
You misunderstand me - I was only saying that in this particular instance there's no point saying what should have happened before in terms of allocating people to specific areas in the new stadium. And that's because (1) even if they had 'got that right' the the issue over persistent standing would still exist.
And (2) even if they now set up a ticket swap to put right what they got wrong (again, using those terms for convenience) it would make no difference . Because the issue over persistent standing will still be a problem.
Even though it might not then upset other fans who are having their view blocked, by grouping 'standers' together, the safety/licence issue will still require people to spend more time on their bums than on their feet ;ok
Mrs g.. Fair enough if you label what I say "pointless"... And you wonder why people don't contribute on this forum as much as you'd like ;doh
But Ali - it is pointless There are now rules that will be enforced - your response seems to be putting your fingers in your ears and going no no no ! Now it has been raised as an issue, there is no way the club will be able to be seen to back off.
Actually if it was anyone that put their fingers in their ears over all of this
I honestly can't see why you think this would have made a difference.
The main issue is not that some fans are standing and blocking the view of other fans, the main issue is that those responsible for issuing the safety certificate for the club's matches are insisting on no persistent standing, and have shown they are prepared to punish the club if they fail to enforce it.
Preston - on the website the Davids said "the license is for all-seating", this isn't something the owners/operators/Newham council have suddenly sprung on us, this is something that was known from the moment the stadium was granted a license.
Then the failing, if there was one, was in failing to make it crystal clear to those buying STs that no persistent standing would be permitted, and that it would be strictly enforced.
I'm not talking about people wanting to be consoled .. It's just poor planning from the club ... When people went to their booking appointment and asked for equivalent seats ... So everyone in chicken run went equivalent area etc did the club really not think everyone would then just sit in that new area ?
They sold too many season tickets, didn't have a family section, and made too many people not get an equivalent area by allowing too many plus 2's... And now they're facing lots of fans fighting amongst each other ... and before people say it's only a few standing fans moaning ... Look at other fans forums e.g kumb and you'll find there are a LOT more unhappy fans than what you think ... As I said , a quarter of upton park stood.
They didn't think they would sell out the stadium so put the +2 offer in. They quickly realised that to be not true and looked at extending the capacity it happened they sold those tickets. The +2 idea was miscalculated but not a stupid idea as some people are saying last i heard the waiting list at the Boleyn was a few thousand and we were going from a 35k to a 50k+ stadium ?
I'm not talking about people wanting to be consoled .. It's just poor planning from the club ... When people went to their booking appointment and asked for equivalent seats ... So everyone in chicken run went equivalent area etc did the club really not think everyone would then just sit in that new area ?
They sold too many season tickets, didn't have a family section, and made too many people not get an equivalent area by allowing too many plus 2's... And now they're facing lots of fans fighting amongst each other ... and before people say it's only a few standing fans moaning ... Look at other fans forums e.g kumb and you'll find there are a LOT more unhappy fans than what you think ... As I said , a quarter of upton park stood.
The sales of tickets in what ever shape or form has no bearing on the owners of the stadium enforcing a no persistent standing rule. Wouldnot change a thing if a whole stand was "sold" as the place to be in your voice only works when you're standing. The owners would still say, "erm, tell them lot to sit down as you're not renting a stand if you fancy it stadium but an all seater, so sit"
I might be missing something here but I am struggling to see how the +2 tickets has a knock on effect to those wanting to stand? They would be wanting to stand regardless, and as Preston said earlier, even if you put all of the standing fans together so that no ones view was obstructed we would still have this issue.
Also those wanting to bash the club, this is coming from the stadium operators not the club. Ok the club could have tried to group fans better (family area etc..) but standing would still be an issue.
We have only played a couple of games at the new stadium, it is very early days, how about we give the powers that be a chance to resolve these issues. By all accounts they seem to be canvassing for feedback to help make it better. It was never going to be perfect from game one!
Then the failing, if there was one, was in failing to make it crystal clear to those buying STs that no persistent standing would be permitted, and that it would be strictly enforced.
Grey I think this is a good point, however the focus of the selling teams at the reservation Center was to get as many ST's sold as they possibly could and unfortunately in doing that other stuff was missed. Obviously I get that the club would want a full stadium but I think they dropped the ball on other stuff and now we're seeing the results of that.
I don't understand the lack of atmosphere/popcorn thing. So are we only allowed to sing or chant when we stand up then? I've not seen my seat in the new stadium yet but in the last 3 years having a season ticket in the east stand at Upton Park, I managed to make plenty of noise whilst sitting down. Also isn't it down to the fans and or players on the pitch to create the atmosphere?
Clacton - I don't think anyone is saying you can't make an atmosphere while sitting, of course you can sing/chant, wave your arms about ;wahoo
But how much of one?
But even as someone who wouldn't probably do it today, I do get a warm fuzzy feeling watching the standing crew behind the goals or wherever belting out whatever anthem or funny chant.........while standing, bouncing around or whatever.
If that doesn't add to the atmosphere, then I'm not sure what does.
I'm not talking about people wanting to be consoled .. It's just poor planning from the club ... When people went to their booking appointment and asked for equivalent seats ... So everyone in chicken run went equivalent area etc did the club really not think everyone would then just sit in that new area ?
They sold too many season tickets, didn't have a family section, and made too many people not get an equivalent area by allowing too many plus 2's... And now they're facing lots of fans fighting amongst each other ... and before people say it's only a few standing fans moaning ... Look at other fans forums e.g kumb and you'll find there are a LOT more unhappy fans than what you think ... As I said , a quarter of upton park stood.
Ok, so let's say hypothetically that the club had managed to seat everybody where they wanted to sit, so that all the people who wanted to stand were all seated together and all the people who wanted to sit were able to sit together. Are the club still to blame when the owners and the operators now insist that everybody has to remain in their seats during the match?
I'm guessing we wouldn't even be talking about it or even have this thread.
Why?
because nobody would've complained, therefore the club wouldn't of had this issue to deal with.
The seaters would be happily seated, the kids, the young, the old whoever only rising when it mattered.
The standers would've been bouncing around like they always have.
Comments
I told them, but they did not listen.
On a thread that has had around 100 new comments today, suggesting that debate is not allowed or frowned on, or that only 'the party line' is allowed seems a bit strange.
Clearly, this post is self-contradictory, since you and others have been and are free to post what you think.
The reference to 'pointless' was that, in the opinion of many users NOT just MrsG, the non-standing is a done deal, and arguing about what the club should have done or should do will make no difference.
Doesn't mean you can't carry on, just that, in the opinion of many, it will have no impact. Why can't people challenge the source of a rumour?
And how would that stop others from discussing a player if they want to? People on here are free to post their emotional responses to issues if that is what they want. Others are free to approach an issue with an analytical slant if that is their bent (see what I did there? ;wink )
If people just want a forum where they can vent their views and feelings unchallenged, they are bound to be disappointed on here.
But they were blinded, by pound notes and ST sales
If this doesn't sort itself out (which it probably will over time) and people are forced to sit all
Over because there are kids and families Now in the old Unofficial standing areas (BML/TBL/Chav) then the atmosphere is gone.
We will be the new library. Just like Brady had at her favoured club.
;ok
The club and DG in particular spout off they are mere custodians of the club, really it's the fans.
If the fans don't bother to point out the wrongs of the club how do we improve? If they don't acknowledge or ask for feedback how do we try and get more right than wrong.
Well if we've suddenly turned into a club that just worries about the numbers and the money, what's the point.
Why have an SAB or anything similar? Nope let's just sit there eat your popcorn and be thankful you've got a seat at the shiny new bowl. Because if you don't there will be someone to replace you and your loyalty of X amount of years.
The number 1 priority should've been to make sure the 26k ST and possibly members were taken care off, not X amount of non-hammers that jumped the queue and ended up on the founders wall because someone at the RC was on a bonus scheme to sell as many tickets as possible whichever way they could (lies, false information etc)
"I have kids, we've been to the previous games in our East Stand season ticket seats, my kids have missed most of the game.
We didn't know what we'd bought, or where we'd be... but it's not too much to expect to be able to see the pitch.
You wanna stand for no reason; they are 4ft tall and didn't choose row 64. Give us a chance."
What can the club do if the stadium owners insist on fans not 'persistently standing'?
Seriously, what is it you think they can do?
You can point out what you see as the +2 club failings all you like.
The
stadium ownersLondon Stadium Safety Advisory Group and Newham Council are insisting on the 'no persistent standing' rule being adhered to. They have already penalised the club for failing to ensure this.How do you see that being 'sorted out'?
You may well be right, but that isn't the view of those in charge of issuing the safety certificate, sadly.
What they should've done is focus a bit more on the paying loyal customer rather than the +2 scheme.
Possibly they could find a ticket swap process to allow people to move into areas that are happily seated or standing, if they don't then this could potentially take years to unravel itself, maybe less of a number of tourist fans or +2 that only came to see what all the fuss was about, move on.
But for anyone to say " oh well that's it, deal with it" is wrong, fans wouldn't of got half they have today without having some kind of voice.
I am truly worried that now the club have the demand, the 52k sold and 30k waiting list, that they switch off knowing that someone will replace you and the atmosphere doesn't take off.
For me, it's up to the club to try and make this right. I am in no way condoning people who stand in front of others with no respect, I wouldn't do it to someone not would I want it done to me.
;ok
And (2) even if they now set up a ticket swap to put right what they got wrong (again, using those terms for convenience) it would make no difference . Because the issue over persistent standing will still be a problem.
Even though it might not then upset other fans who are having their view blocked, by grouping 'standers' together, the safety/licence issue will still require people to spend more time on their bums than on their feet ;ok
It was the club, not the fans, way back when
;ok
I honestly can't see why you think this would have made a difference.
The main issue is not that some fans are standing and blocking the view of other fans, the main issue is that those responsible for issuing the safety certificate for the club's matches are insisting on no persistent standing, and have shown they are prepared to punish the club if they fail to enforce it.
;biggrin
;ok
Wouldnot change a thing if a whole stand was "sold" as the place to be in your voice only works when you're standing. The owners would still say, "erm, tell them lot to sit down as you're not renting a stand if you fancy it stadium but an all seater, so sit"
Also those wanting to bash the club, this is coming from the stadium operators not the club. Ok the club could have tried to group fans better (family area etc..) but standing would still be an issue.
We have only played a couple of games at the new stadium, it is very early days, how about we give the powers that be a chance to resolve these issues. By all accounts they seem to be canvassing for feedback to help make it better. It was never going to be perfect from game one!
But how much of one?
But even as someone who wouldn't probably do it today, I do get a warm fuzzy feeling watching the standing crew behind the goals or wherever belting out whatever anthem or funny chant.........while standing, bouncing around or whatever.
If that doesn't add to the atmosphere, then I'm not sure what does.
;biggrin
Why?
because nobody would've complained, therefore the club wouldn't of had this issue to deal with.
The seaters would be happily seated, the kids, the young, the old whoever only rising when it mattered.
The standers would've been bouncing around like they always have.
and the stewards would've been doing very little.
;ok
I'm just getting in training for when Luke has to add one of each for every single post I make....
;biggrin