Summer Transfer Window 2023

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Comments

  • Lukerz said:

    I just don’t believe the idea that we sit around for weeks doing nothing & there is no thought at all into our strategy - it may not be as good as other clubs, but it’s not completely inept.

    Yeah, I completely agree with this part. We wouldn't have been in the Premier League for 10 years, Europe for 4 of those, and with a trophy to show for it if we were inept in the transfer market.
    Lukerz said:

    Personally, I think Gallagher is lightweight. I would be concerned if he was a first 11 player. I certainly would not pay £50m for him. He had a reasonable season at Palace a couple of years ago but nothing more.

    This part I'm not so sure about. I don't really think Chelsea last season is a good way to be able to judge any player, because the entire squad was diabolical. There was more going on there than just poor form, IMO. That said, I think he was one of the better players there. For me, he would be a very good option for us. £50m seems very steep, but I guess if Southampton are wanting £40m for JWP who is what 4/5 years older, then that doesn't seem as crazy.
  • Lukerz said:

    We also need HG players, though.

    Yep. So that has to be factored into the decision as to whether we pursue Gallagher, McTominay etc, and could force our hand into overpaying.

    I'm just not convinced that a lot of proper planning goes into our transfers. From the outside at least, it looks to me like we have little idea of what we're doing.
  • I know we got very good money for Rice, but £50m for Gallagher feels way too much money, and I don't think anyone else would remotely consider it. It's obviously a case of who blinks first, if they want to sell, they'll need to reduce their price. No-one is paying that money, so, as much as I want players to come in, we should do our business for overseas players now and look at players from PL clubs later in the window.
  • I’m assuming this Broges from City is HG, which may be another reason why we want him.
  • So it seems a shoot-out between JWP, McTom & Gallagher. Who would be your preferred option. We’re not signing all 3.
  • edited July 2023
    Lukerz said:

    I’m assuming this Broges from City is HG, which may be another reason why we want him.

    He is, but at 19 won't need to be registered.

    Lukerz said:

    So it seems a shoot-out between JWP, McTom & Gallagher. Who would be your preferred option. We’re not signing all 3.

    Gallagher, I think, assuming we're signing an orthodox DM as well.

    Alvarez
    Gallagher Paqueta

    Backed up by

    Downes
    Soucek Fornals
  • edited July 2023
    Just to muddy the water around home grown player quotas, we have two different sets of requirements for Premier League and Europa League. Both competitions need us to have 8 home grown players, and a total squad size of 25, but UEFA has some slight differences.

    U21 players don't have to be registered for either competition, but with UEFA the U21 year old also needs to have played for the club for two seasons. So, for example, Carlos Borges (if he signs) wouldn't count towards our Premier League quota but would count towards our Europa League quota.

    The other difference is that UEFA say that 4 of the HG players must be club grown. So, Johnson, Anang and Coventry are our home grown club players. Which means, unless we sign someone who came through our academy, we aren't going to be able to register a squad of 25 players for the Europa League, OR we can register someone U21 (like Mubama) who wouldn't actually need to be registered so it wouldn't make a difference regardless.

    Currently, we have 22 senior (over 21) players, and 8 of them count as home grown - Anang, Johnson, Cresswell, Coventry, Downes, Bowen, Ings and Antonio. Which means for the Premier League, we can sign 3 over 21 players who aren't home grown. For Europa League we can register two players of any age who aren't home grown.

    Nice and confusing :)
  • Gallagher, JWP, McTom.
    Not feeling the McTom one at all.
  • Gallagher. He's younger and has a better chance of recouping some money if we decide to sell him.
  • Gallagher would be best of three.

    McTominay probably second because I've seen him put some very good performances but only as someone driving with the ball. Not near Rice on what he does defensively and keeping the game running.

    I'm also always suspicious of Manchester United academy players once they go elsewhere but I think this might be partly a hangover from when Ferguson made some really average players look good in his teams, so they were awfully exposed when they went else where.

    JWP depends on price.
  • Chelsea are close to signing attacking midfielder Mohammed Kudus for £40m.

    Replacement for Gallagher?
  • Gallagher made 45 appearances last season, more than any other Chelsea player apart from Havertz (47) although only 21 starts

    Its still quite an achievement when you consider how many players Tuchel, Potter and Lamaprd had to pick from!
  • So, we're linked with Carlos Borges, Taylor Harwood-Bellis, Conor Gallagher -- is this the Red Bull model everyone wanted?
  • I didn't want "the Red Bull model"

    I hate the stuff, smells disgusting...
  • alderz said:

    So, we're linked with Carlos Borges, Taylor Harwood-Bellis, Conor Gallagher -- is this the Red Bull model everyone wanted?

    Everyone wanted? I heard Moyes say it once or twice.
  • edited July 2023
    alderz said:

    So, we're linked with Carlos Borges, Taylor Harwood-Bellis, Conor Gallagher -- is this the Red Bull model everyone wanted lots of people on this forum and elsewhere were excited by when David Moyes mentioned it?

    Ok, trying again.
  • Lots of people? Only Dave mentioned it. Change it again! Hahaha
  • I think the Red Bull model has become a bit conflated. It's not just about buying young players; it's about trusting them, playing them and being prepared to cash in on them a few years down the line.

    I've seen arguments that we already operate the Red Bull model because we've signed half-a dozen young lads from Northern Ireland. I've seen Luizao used as an example, as well. And sure, we do buy a lot of youngsters, but they rarely get a look in. Recently we've seen Odubeko, Oko-Flex and Alves brought in, but they've all been moved on with little or no profit without ever threatening the first team.

    Rice is probably the only example of where it's worked; he cost us nothing, we developed him and made a huge profit on him. If we re-invested that money in Gallagher, Borges, Harwood-Bellis etc. and they played regular PL and EL football, then in theory we could increase their value, sell them at a profit and then re-invest again in more high-quality youth.

    I'm just not sure many fans would be happy doing that because you essentially become a feeder club.
  • I didn't want "the Red Bull model"

    I hate the stuff, smells disgusting...

    Gives you wing(er)s
  • Ravel49 said:

    This transfer window is turning into a right Eton Mess (as always)!

    As long as we're not the summer fools!
  • I didn't want "the Red Bull model"

    I hate the stuff, smells disgusting...

    Gives you wing(er)s
    Or, in January, Gives you Ings.
  • I saw what Gallagher did to us at home against Palace a couple of seasons ago. 2 poacher goals in the box. That will do me.
  • edited July 2023
    West Ham in talks for James Ward-Prowse, who will be omitted from Southamptons squad tonight against Bournemouth (Sky Sports). He is fit to play.
  • Lukerz said:

    West Ham in talks for James Ward-Prowse, who will be omitted from Southamptons squad tonight against Bournemouth (Sky Sports). He is fit to play.

    I really, really don't want us to sign JWP, I think I'll only be more disappointed if we sign Maguire on anything other than a non-obligation loan.
  • Lukerz said:

    West Ham in talks for James Ward-Prowse, who will be omitted from Southamptons squad tonight against Bournemouth (Sky Sports). He is fit to play.

    Twitter has picked this up and is running with it hard.

    I'm a bit meh about Ward-Prowse. Not sure why, to be honest. Good with the ball, so an upgrade on Soucek.

    Alongside Paqueta with a solid DM behind them (Alvarez seems most heavily linked, although Sangare's name is apparently back in the mix), and it could be a good shout.

    @alderz, I remember you being keen. Is that based on what you've seen, or based on his numbers?
  • I'd be happy with JWP but would that be the end of the Gallagher links?
  • edited July 2023
    Hamstew said:

    I'd be happy with JWP but would that be the end of the Gallagher links?

    Depends I guess. I could see us signing both if Fornals' move to Betis goes through. Or if Downes goes to Southampton as a part-ex for JWP.

    To me, Gallagher, JWP and McTominay are different types of players though, so I'm not entirely sure what the plan is when making simultaneous bids for them.
  • Fornals is leaving?
  • edited July 2023
    Hamstew said:

    Fornals is leaving?

    Well, linked to Betis. Pellegrini signed him for West Ham so maybe just a lazy link, but there's supposed interest.

    https://onefootball.com/en/news/lo-celso-and-fornals-betis-ultimate-pursuit-37882792
  • @alderz, I remember you being keen. Is that based on what you've seen, or based on his numbers?

    Bit of both really.

    Stats wise, he creates A LOT of chances and goals for Southampton, he's in the top 16% of midfielders for shot creating actions, and in the top 2% for shot creating actions from set pieces. I appreciate that set pieces drive a lot of that, but I personally don't see that as a bad thing, because set pieces are crucial.

    He's very Noble-esque in his passing, in that he's not one to play loads of defence splitting passes, but he will keep the ball better than most, and he is not afraid to get on the ball. I think he's a real calming presence in midfield, which I think we will likely lack without Rice and Noble. We need someone in midfield who will take care of the ball, and give us some respite, and I think he's probably a better bet for that than Gallagher. And JWP obviously offers you those set pieces, which means that he's always a threat, no matter how he's playing.

    My concern with him would be that he isn't a defensive midfielder - his defensive stats are pretty meh, good for interceptions, doesn't really tackle much - and he's not one to drive with the ball either. So his role would be unclear. But he would be a LOT better on the ball than Soucek, and would create goals for us with his set pieces.

    For me, would work as an 8 alongside Paqueta, assuming we have a proper destroyer behind them. If I was forced to choose between JWP and Gallagher, I honestly don't know what I'd prefer. They offer very different things as midfielders, despite both being number 8s.
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