Moyes In or Moyes Out

chicagohammer

It is clear to me that a significant number of first teamers are likely to leave or at least have a limited shelf life, Antonio, Soucek, Coufel, Cresswell, Fab and let’s not forget Rice.

This is largely DMs team and to be fair, he has had a decent run and his record is far from terrible, but to transform the current squad into one that is once again competitive, is likely to be a multi year undertaking and I think the time is right to wish DM well but to bring in a fresh face with fresh ideas.

alderz

I think it really downplays the last few years to say he’s had a “decent run”, tbh. The last few seasons have been the most successful period in our recent history. The last time we finished higher than 10th two years in a row was 2000!

Has it been perfect? No. But to say it’s been “decent” or “far from terrible” does not do it justice whatsoever.

jay_in_cpt

He's done well, but IMHO all good thjings have to end, he's Done well for most, but now it's time to part ways.
The fans are very divided by him and should he stay or go, but for me, it would be nice to see a new face in charge with some fresh ideas....
IMO.....

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

Is it that he doesn’t trust them, or he knows his best XI and the others aren’t proving him wrong? It wasn’t long ago that everyone was frustrated than Benrahma couldn’t get a start, and now look at him. If they can show him they deserve to play, they will.

Vlasic was obviously a disappointment, but Kral was always fourth choice, IMO

I take your point, but if the majority of his signings can't make it into his best eleven, then doesn’t that put his judgement into question? If they're not considered good enough to make regular PL starts, then have we signed the right players?

thornburyiron

The manager of any club, whoever it is, has to put a squad of up to 25 players together. Until the laws change and you can make 14 subs in a game, then there are always going to be players who are not regular starters.
City don’t always play the likes of Grealish, De Bruyne etc. Utd bought Sancho but don’t play him.
It’s not just us or Moyes.

alderz

OldCastleSwift said:

alderz said:

Is it that he doesn’t trust them, or he knows his best XI and the others aren’t proving him wrong? It wasn’t long ago that everyone was frustrated than Benrahma couldn’t get a start, and now look at him. If they can show him they deserve to play, they will.

Vlasic was obviously a disappointment, but Kral was always fourth choice, IMO

I take your point, but if the majority of his signings can't make it into his best eleven, then doesn’t that put his judgement into question? If they're not considered good enough to make regular PL starts, then have we signed the right players?

I get that, but also, Benrahma, Coufal, Soucek, Zouma, Aguerd, Paqueta and Bowen are all his signings. So the majority of his starting XI are his signings. Only 11 can start, and the longer he’s here the more signings he’ll make and the rate of those signings being first team players will drop.

OldCastleSwift

thornburyiron said:

The manager of any club, whoever it is, has to put a squad of up to 25 players together. Until the laws change and you can make 14 subs in a game, then there are always going to be players who are not regular starters.
City don’t always play the likes of Grealish, De Bruyne etc. Utd bought Sancho but don’t play him.
It’s not just us or Moyes.

I'd argue that City use their squad a lot better then we do. Grealish and De Bruyne may not start every game, but they feature regularly and appear to be trusted to do so by Pep. He rotates his squad very well and that is part of why they've been so successful.

Moyes doesn't really rotate his playing squad, and that is one of the reasons why we fell away so badly last season, IMO. And I believe the reason he doesn't rotate is because he doesn't trust enough players in his squad to do a job.

alderz

I still don’t think it’s a trust thing. I think it’s more from a bit of old school mentality of “put your best players on the pitch”. When you’re in trouble? Best players. When you’re doing well? Don’t change a winning team.

Our lack of rotation bothers me too, because we have players out of form who continue to start, and players who - when they get a cameo - seem very rusty and off the pace.

ASLEFshrugged

14 out of the 25 squad were signed by Moyes and 9 of those 14 were signed this season (inc. Areola)

Fortuneseeker

It's his lack of rotation that is resulting in us having players very fatigued & playing like they did yesterday. I would save a few of our best players for the first leg of the Semi Final otherwise we may as well right that competition off.

thornburyiron

I think too much is made of the two games a week scenario. They’re supposed to be professional athletes and mostly in their 20’s.
I know the game is faster now but in the Moire, Hurst days etc they played in ankle deep mud and far more games. Granted there was only two European competitions one for the champions and one for the cup winners. The way it’s going soon if you avoid relegation you qualify for a European competition.

Fortuneseeker

thorn, In the 1974/75 season we had played 5 games before the end of August, half the fixtures by the first weekend in December & played three matches over Easter between Good Friday & the following Tuesday. I admit the last Saturday in April was their last match.

Lukerz

People get confused with games & peak performance. All players can play several games a week, I bet most could play every day of the week.

It’s expecting the peak performance from those repeat matches that is the issue. It’s not the fitness of running around for 90 mins.

Yeoldhammer

How many of our players do you reckon sell for the fee we bought them for or more ?

Can only think of Bowen and Coufal ?

The fact of the matter is a lot of business has been pure garbage and continues to be. Overpaying for 3rd choice players in the pick list. Then a number of players who really don't improve individually.

chicagohammer

alderz said:

I still don’t think it’s a trust thing. I think it’s more from a bit of old school mentality of “put your best players on the pitch”. When you’re in trouble? Best players. When you’re doing well? Don’t change a winning team.

Our lack of rotation bothers me too, because we have players out of form who continue to start, and players who - when they get a cameo - seem very rusty and off the pace.

So…………………….

claretandbluesky

I am not suggesting it is the case but I do always question if having a truly world class player in one of the most important positions on the pitch has been the cause of the previous two seasons success. A case can also be made that Moyes has helped make him that player by showing faith in him and giving him responsibility. I do feel however Rice is hugely influential in 3 out of every 4 matches he plays in. Will we look back at these times and say the Moyes years or the Rice years?

I like how our team spirit looks good and we never feel anyone on the pitch is disinterested or not giving all, that is undeniably down to a good manager. I am sometimes not sure however if Moyes tendency to favour not losing rather than trying to win at the start of matches hinders the potential of some of our players and how we set up. This has especially been the case this season in my view once we began to find ourselves near the bottom.

A big test of this is the first leg at home in the semi final as I feel if he plays it safe the opposition will let him have his draw and play out a dull encounter hoping to nick it at their place.

Ravel49

West Ham have identified former Tottenham target Paulo Fonseca as a potential replacement for David Moyes and the Portuguese coach, currently boss of French side Lille, is interested in the job should Moyes leave. (Sun)

OldCastleSwift

https://www.football.london/west-ham-united-fc/fixtures-results/moyes-maxwel-cornet-west-ham-26858786

Moyes’s take on Cornet's lack of minutes.

The bit I find particularly odd is this statement:

It is somewhere else that Cornet's best position lays, however. Moyes added: "I see him playing alongside another striker, I think playing alongside somebody would probably be his pick. He definitely can play down the left for you as well, but I see him actually, if you look at him when he’s come on, he’s nearly always been around the goal.

How often has Moyes played two up front? Just seems a bit strange to suggest that Cornet's best position is one that Moyes almost never plays 🤷‍♂️

Lukerz

I think you can play him if we go with a back five or as a No.10 instead of Paqueta.

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

I think you can play him if we go with a back five or as a No.10 instead of Paqueta.

But we often go with a five and I can't remember us having two up top.

Ravel49

Could Europa Conference League win secure Moyes stay?
West Ham have not yet ruled out starting next season with David Moyes as the club's manager - and winning the Europa Conference League would give his case to stay on a huge boost (Daily Telegraph).
West Ham are resigned to losing Declan Rice this summer if an appropriate offer arrives for their £100m-rated captain (Daily Mail).
The FA and Metropolitan Police are concerned that the Europa Conference League final could present a public order risk if West Ham qualify for the showpiece occasion at the 20,800-capacity Eden Arena, amid fears of thousands of ticketless supporters descending on Prague (Daily Mail).

Lukerz

We can get to 46 points, with 3 very winnable games. I don’t think we’ll win all 3, but Leeds & Leicester could be all but gone by the time we face them both. Brentford are now playing for not a lot. That plus our Conference League semi-final, we could have a really positive end to the season.

EXETERHAMMER

We could, and I would like that. 🙂

Ravel49

Fulham manager Marco Silva has a £6m release clause in his contract with West Ham considering an approach for the 45-year-old Portuguese should they decide to sack Scot David Moyes at the end of the season. (Mail)

alderz

I would not want Marco Silva. He starts well everywhere, but his teams tend to drop off as the season goes on. I'm settling quite happily in the "keep Moyes" camp, personally.

claretandbluesky

alderz said:

I would not want Marco Silva. He starts well everywhere, but his teams tend to drop off as the season goes on. I'm settling quite happily in the "keep Moyes" camp, personally.

Does a Billic to give it the technical term.

Lukerz

Sky are reporting that West Ham want Moyes to remain as manager next season. Should he not, it will be his decision, the club want him to continue.

alderz

I want him to stay. He’s seen us through a few sticky patches and given us the best squad and performances of my memory. For me, he’s the guy to get us up the table again next year.

EXETERHAMMER

Saves the club money

OldCastleSwift

Seems like a gentle way of breaking it to the proportion of the fanbase that want him gone, that he's staying.

He's already said he's planning for next season, and won't go of his own volition because he won't, IMO, get a bigger job than this one.

So if the story is true, then he'll be manager next season.

Just a couple of things on alderz's post; some might argue that the sticky patches Moyes has seen us through were created by him in the first place, and to get us up the table shouldn't be too big an ask with the squad he has given that we're likely to finish around 15th.

We've had a poor domestic season, following a poor second half of last season, and only a win in the ECL will make it a successful European campaign for me. Just reaching the final wouldn't constitute a success in my books. I don't think he's the man to take us forward, and nor do I think he'll be able to replicate those top seven finishes. His football is largely predictable and rarely exciting, and his record in the transfer window is questionable to say the least.

Still Moyes out, but very much expecting to be disappointed.