Moyes In or Moyes Out

claretandbluesky

I think the responsible thing for the club to be doing is to have drawn up a shortlist of managers they feel can take us further than we are at present. They should be having discreet contact where possible at the earliest opportunity.

If they can tempt one of these managers then I would let Moyes go. What they should not do is sack Moyes and have no one lined up as you could end up taking a gamble much worse than letting Moyes carry on next year.

Should Moyes win the conference and keep us up with some decent performances in these last few matches I suspect he will keep his job. Out in the Semi's and fighting with Leicester in the final match of the season and he is gone.

steve

Might have to change to in .will see how the next 45 goes

Kuchinghammer

Moyes has a canny plan. Win the Conference, qualify for Europa. Win that and qualify for Champions League. Win that. Then think about replacing Antonio and Cresswell for a promotion push back to the EPL. 😉

chicagohammer

Another reason why I support letting DM go at the end of this season, irrespective of the final outcome, is that I suspect we will inevitably see an exodus of players over the next couple of years.

This team have delivered decent results in that we have enjoyed a couple of seasons flirting with the top six with a couple of European semi finals to boot.

This season has certainly been disappointing but whilst what they achieved prior cannot be taken away, the fact remains that the current crop will not be around for much longer.

DM built this team and as I have also said elsewhere, he has nothing to prove but I feel his race is also run, I hope we get a new face next season who can manage the transition and has ideas towards building a fresh roster and tactics that will take us onwards and hopefully, upwards.

alderz

Rebuilding doesn't need to mean starting again, though. Moyes rebuilt Everton a few times, and I think he'd be capable of rebuilding us too. If we have a new manager, and an exodus of players simultaneously, we run the risk of losing a lot of what has made us good over the past few years, IMO.

That's not to say I completely 100% want him to stay, I just am not convinced that that's a reason in favour of him leaving.

ASLEFshrugged

Moyes has never stopped building a team, every season players have left and the playes brought in have mostly been an upgrade

Pellegrini's last game our starting XI was

Fabianski
Fredericks Balbuena Diop Masuaku
Sanchez Rice
Fornals Lanzini Anderson
Haller

Subs Roberto, Zabaleta, Reid, Snodgrass, Noble, Antonio, Ajeti

Cresswell. Ogbonna, Wilshire and Yarmolenko were all injured

Just the thought of Carlos Sanchez in the starting XI sends shivers down my spine

alderz

Hands up who remembered Alban Ajeti.

buffybegood

alderz said:

Hands up who remembered Alban Ajeti.

Did he go to Celtic? A forward?

buffybegood

Must admit I've not recovered from seeing Roberto listed 😱😱😱, might take all day at the very least.

BubblesNeverDies

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

Hands up who remembered Alban Ajeti.

Did he go to Celtic? A forward?

Paid £8m for him, played 9 games, no goals, sold him to Celtic a year later for £5m.
Does that sound about right?

I reckon whoever bought him saw his name in full (Albian Afrim Ajeti) and thought we can't go wrong here - Triple A.
Amazingly he's still only 26.

nychammer66

Was he from Iceland?

PrestonHammer

Switzerland I think.

Ravel49

In the absence of Aslef 🫡

BubblesNeverDies

nychammer66 said:

Was he from Iceland?

I actually read that as a pun on Triple A freezer rating/Iceland.
I think MrsGrey did as well.

MrsGrey

I read it as a pun on a yeti.

PrestonHammer

If you had said BeJam I might of got it hahaha

BubblesNeverDies

MrsGrey said:

I read it as a pun on a yeti.

You just can't trust puns can you.

OldCastleSwift

Been thinking on Moyes’s future (again) and I think we have a fundamental and significant problem in the summer if we keep him. Putting the performances and results to one side, I don't quite know what we do about the squad that he's put together.

Resent games, today included, have shown how little faith Moyes has in a good number of his players. He dropped Fornals a long time ago, and Emerson has been out of favour again recently, but both came back in today and both were hooked at half time, and I suspect both will be back on the bench on Wednesday. He's reverted to his tried and tested, admittedly with positive results against Arsenal, Gent and Bournemouth, but what does this mean for next season if he stays?

When you look at the record summer spend, you could argue that we've wasted all but £30m of it. Areola can't displace Fabianksi, despite the latter's penchant for mistakes (Palace's equaliser for example). Emerson can't keep an aging Cresswell out of the starting eleven, Kehrer is now 4th choice center back, Downes has barely featured, Cornet, despite finally being fit, has had to make do with 5-10 minutes at the end of games, Paqueta hasn't been anywhere near a £50m player and Scamacca, when fit, has been in and out of the team and we haven't been able to play to his strengths when he has featured.

So assuming Moyes stays, what happens to these players? If he doesn't trust them or rate them now, what's to say he will next season? And if, let's say, we move some of them on, does anyone - most importantly the board - trust him to replace them with better?

I just feel like we're going to be a bit stuck. Assuming for a second that we do stay up, I don't really want to go into next season with Fabianksi, Cresswell, Soucek and Antonio as starters as all are on the wane. But this was the case last summer and we have evidently failed to sign adequate replacements, so I have my doubts that Moyes would get it right second time around.

I know a new manager is likely to bring more player turnover, but we might see that under Moyes anyway if we ship out some of this season's 'failures'. But a new manager may be able to get more out of the players already at the club; I mean, Emerson and Scamacca are good enough for Mancini, but seemingly not for Moyes. A manager who could get us playing a more possession based game could get the best out of Paqueta, too.

Just feels like we're at the end of the road. We seem to have too many players that Moyes doesn't trust and I can't see how they come back. If Moyes stays, we could lose a lot of this squad, which means another big turnover with little faith that there'll be a more successful outcome next time round.

Hamstew

He needs to go still for me regardless of what happens.
As someone said on a fancam earlier regarding Moyes tactics. "If plan A doesn't work then we are screwed"

Fortuneseeker

OCS, For all the mick taking of Pelle and his mate's transfer dealings no one bothers to mention the shed loads of money we lost on the sales of Anderson, Haller & probably Vlasic under our current managers watch! Who is to say he won't do it again if he is allowed to stay on?

thornburyiron

Anderson wasn’t signed by Moyes and nor was Haller

alderz

The money we spend and the money we bring in on transfers is on the board, not the manager.

OldCastleSwift

Fortuneseeker said:

OCS, For all the mick taking of Pelle and his mate's transfer dealings no one bothers to mention the shed loads of money we lost on the sales of Anderson, Haller & probably Vlasic under our current managers watch! Who is to say he won't do it again if he is allowed to stay on?

This is another risk. Significant loses on most of your transfers isn't sustainable.

We had a pretty barren summer '21 window (four first team signings, two of which rarely threatened the starting eleven) and then nothing in January '23. The primary reason given was that Moyes didn't want to sign players unless they improved the first team, but of the eight players we signed last summer I think only Aguerd has improved the team; the jury is still out on Paqueta (is he better than prime Fornals?) and Cornet and Scamacca for obvious reasons, but Areola, Emerson, Kehrer and Downes haven't representated an improvement as they haven't been able to establish themselves in Moyes' plans any more than Randolph, Masuaku, Diop and Noble did.

We can't drop £130m every summer on transfers, so we need to make sure that the majority of our signings work out. In recent history, we've failed to do that.

OldCastleSwift

thornburyiron said:

Anderson wasn’t signed by Moyes and nor was Haller

But they were sold by Moyes. So he was happy to let them go and would, I assume, have known the figures involved and how they affect what he could spend.

alderz said:

The money we spend and the money we bring in on transfers is on the board, not the manager.

Moyes has been adamant that he has the final say on transfers, so must be aware of the figures involved, to some extent at least.

It's not entirely on him, but he is part of the collective decision making process so is partly responsible.

thornburyiron

He was happy to let them go and so were most of the people on here. It’s only a couple of weeks ago that people were saying we should get rid of Paqueta, Fornals, Soucek et al.
After today’s performance there’s an argument to get rid of Rice too.

OldCastleSwift

You're missing the point. The letting them go isn't the issue; the issue is letting them go at a significant loss. It's not a sustainable business model, particularly for a club that doesn't have the backing of oil money.

You can argue that it isn't Moyes fault, but he's involved in the buying and selling of players so must have some awareness of how much money is involved in each deal.

The main point of my argument is that we have signed a lot of players that haven't worked out and have a good number of players that don't appear to be trusted. Of course, every transfer has an element of risk, but we have a squad of, what, 20 players and I'd say a third of them aren't fancied by the manager. Understandable if he was new to the club, but he signed most of those players. That also isn't sustainable and one of the reasons why I think Moyes should go.

Fortuneseeker

thorn, I am pleased you said most not me I have to point out. Don't doubt Paqueta or Fornals especially if the latter is not played out of position! Rice is probably going in the summer if all the continual reports are to be believed. He may not have signed Anderson or Haller but he certainly let them leave at a considerable loss.

MrsGrey

But if the options are
1 letting them go at a significant loss or
2 keeping them on the books while knowing they aren't going to contribute what you need ..

Surely they have to go. A no brainer?

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

But if the options are
1 letting them go at a significant loss or
2 keeping them on the books while knowing they aren't going to contribute what you need ..

Surely they have to go. A no brainer?

To an extent I agree, but a club can't succeed financially if it's taking a heavy loss on every major signing. But the financials are secondary to my main point, to be honest.

Moyes not fancying Haller and Anderson is one thing; they weren't his signings so fair enough, but he signed Kral but didn't trust him. He signed Vlasic and didn't trust him. Even before them he dropped £10m on Hugill but didn't trust him.

We've now had a busy summer and of the eight players Moyes signed, he only appears to trust and/or rate two of them (Aguerd and Paqueta). The other six (Areola, Kehrer, Emerson, Downes, Cornet and Scamacca) don't start or are regularly dropped. That's approximately £65m worth of players that just haven't worked out.

Add to them Fornals, Lanzini, Johnson and, until recently, Benrahma, it's worrying - to me at least - that he doesn't seem to trust a good number of the players at his disposal.

So the question is, do we give him another summer to bring in more players, or see if a new manager can get more from the current lot?

alderz

Is it that he doesn’t trust them, or he knows his best XI and the others aren’t proving him wrong? It wasn’t long ago that everyone was frustrated than Benrahma couldn’t get a start, and now look at him. If they can show him they deserve to play, they will.

Vlasic was obviously a disappointment, but Kral was always fourth choice, IMO