The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

pardewalegend

Let's give thorn a bit of credit here please.
He has a relative who works within the EU and will certainly be better informed than anyone else on here that's for SURE

NEoldiron

AKA,

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-result-not-legally-binding-lawyers-letter-a7129626.html

Also FYI I'm coming from Canning Town if you must know. ;wink

grey_til_I_dye

pards

Leaving aside the fine point, sorry, but that is tosh.

You have no idea how well or ill-informed thorn's relative is, nor how that compares to those posting on here.

So it s far, far from SURE.

thornburyiron

I don't know if I can even call her a relative as she is in some obscure way related to a relative of mine as a kind of in law in law sort of way so I do not personally speak to her.
I am merely relaying what she has told my relative and although I gather she really loves her job she doesn't at all like where she's doing it.

IronHerb

Whether it is legally binding or not is irrelevant. If MP's go against the referendum result they will most likely be voted out of office at the next general election, and probably lose out to UKIP who will enforce an unsatisfactory exit.

thornburyiron

What's an unsa

IronHerb

United Nations Special Advisor ;lol

Corrected now ;ok

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

Not trying to discredit her or you, jut pointing out that pards assuming she was better informed than anyone else on Brexit was a bit of a stretch.

pardewalegend

Grey

No one on here would be better informed on here, not even you

thornburyiron

Grey I don't feel discredited I'm just relaying what she has said. It's the federal ambitions which get to her most. She is obviously better informed than most but not necessarily better informed than all.

pardewalegend

Don't worry Thorn
Theresa May herself could log on here and face an arguement on her credentials

Tomw85

NE sorry but I don't buy either of your points. Surely if the EU is not pushing for ever closer union there would be a mandate or something to say so. I gave evidence to show that it is, I can't really do much more than that.

Also re London losing its financial passport, can you provide anything to support your claims here?

I have given plenty of other examples to show that we should continue to have a strong economy, I couldn't help notice that you didn't provide anything to counter that as your views that we will become a small divided nation are just that, your views and not based on fact.

grey_til_I_dye

thorn

What makes her better informed? The simple fact that she is employed within the EU?

What information is she able to access that is not public domain?

Is every EU employee better informed than any non-EU employee?

What happens when EU employees disagree about something?

Who trumps whom?

pardew

What on earth makes you think that

a) you are qualified to make such a statement

b) that someone you have never met, and know nothing about, is so well-informed.

It's a nonsense.

MrsGrey

pards/thorn

I am not challenging how much she knows or doesn't know. I was trying to make the point that her views are just opinions. She will bring to the process of forming an opinion her own priorities, prejudices and attitudes.

If it follows that anyone whose opinion is based on first hand experience is right, how do you explain the fact that many people have just as much, and possibly more, knowledge but come to a different conclusion?

IronHerb

Tom,

From the FT on 29th June

The City of London should no longer be able to clear euro-denominated trades, the French president said on Tuesday, adding to post-Brexit fears.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8e0c44a-3d89-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html#axzz4En9SrzK7

This is some ridiculous figure of 1 trillion Euro a day I think.

thornburyiron

All I was trying to get across was that she knows first hand that a federal state of Europe is the aim of the EU. Her opinion is that she doesn't like the idea or the thought of it.
As far as I'm aware she's not expressed any other views or details.

Tomw85

Ironherb, sorry but you need to subscribe to be able to read the article so my response is without having read it. The headline which I could see says that the French president wants to rule out London clearing euro's. This doesn't mean it is law, also if he does get his way then to me that is just another example of the EU not being democratic and in fact being very protectionist.

pardewalegend

;doh

ASLEFshrugged

thornburyiron said:

As I posted a couple of weeks ago my tenuous relative who is a translator at the EU in Brussels said vote remain if you want her to keep her job or leave if you don't want to be part of a German led federal state of Europe. They've already applied to join NATO as such so they're determined to do it.

Because the French can't wait to part of a German led federal stare of Europe. Laugh, I nearly.......see Derek and Clive.

grey_til_I_dye

pardewalegend said:

Don't worry Thorn
Theresa May herself could log on here and face an arguement on her credentials

Presumably from you, since she was for Remain.

thorn

How can she possibly 'know' that?

Is it some kind of secret plan that she has found out about?

Or is it what she has surmised?

And if so, without knowing what information she had access to, it's very hard to take as anything other than an 'I reckon'.

MrsGrey

thornburyiron said:

All I was trying to get across was that she knows first hand that a federal state of Europe is the aim of the EU. Her opinion is that she doesn't like the idea or the thought of it.

It's part of the stated aim: ever closer Union. No inside knowledge needed.

Particularly as the UK exemption from that was a headline agenda item in the recent negotiations. And was agreed.

I'm now a bit puzzled as to why you have quoted it/her comment twice.

grey_til_I_dye

tom

What is undemocratic about protectionism?

I would assume the whole point of a trade bloc was to be protectionist.

If the UK isn't in the EU, why would the EU look to protect its status as a financial hub by giving it access to privileges available to a trade bloc it has voted to leave?

Tomw85

Grey

Because it is them saying do as we want or it will cost you. I understand wanting to protect your own interests but it was due to it being based in London that it was able to grow as it has with our geographical location, laws, infrastructure and language. Now they want to make money from it.

Where was our protection when the Chinese were dumping cheap steel into the EU market?

AdMeus_CaputFilius

IronHerb said:

Tom,

From the FT on 29th June

The City of London should no longer be able to clear euro-denominated trades, the French president said on Tuesday, adding to post-Brexit fears.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8e0c44a-3d89-11e6-9f2c-36b487ebd80a.html#axzz4En9SrzK7

This is some ridiculous figure of 1 trillion Euro a day I think.

IH,

Note the underlined part - that is his opinion, it does not mean they won't or it will change anytime soon if at all - and he does not make policy on this, he is working to position Paris to take on the role if it happens, which is something the French have wanted for years and have tried to unsuccessfully to do in the past, nothing to do with the EU and everything to do with improving the economy and power of France. I recall there have been two or three bun fights about this in the past and the Financial institutions in London basically gave the French a long glance and then shrugged their shoulders and carried on.

In the world I work in there are two words which dictate interpretation in any documentation - Shall is an imperative, therefore an instruction. In which case you do something to comply, otherwise you will find yourself on notice pending suspension if you do not comply within a given timeframe.

Should is a choice as it is pointing to what someone considers (in their opinion) to be the best course of action, you can if you want but if you don't it is not a compliance issue, because you don't have to.

Of course the person telling you that you Should/Shouldn't do something may have a different opinion to you or others or ulterior motive to gain an advantage from your decision. SO it does not mean you should follow their advice.

AdMeus_CaputFilius

Where was our protection when the Chinese were dumping cheap steel into the EU market?

Well, I am pretty sure that one of the reasons that the UK Gov't did not (could not) step in with financial help was in case the rest of the EU saw it as giving state aid which is illegal unless agreed/authorised by the EU. So given all the EU members Steel industries would have suffered I can see they would have allowed it.

State Aid is agreed for some areas between EU members and there are lots of rules and regulations regarding it. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/state-aid

AdMeus_CaputFilius

UK technology firm ARM Holdings is to be bought by Japan's Softbank for £24bn ($32bn) it confirmed on Monday.

This has now happened

ARM said it would keep its headquarters in Cambridge and that it would at least double the number of its staff over the next five years.

So not leaving then

Sources close to the deal say the Japanese company considers ARM well placed to exploit the so called "internet of things" which may see microchips embedded in whole new categories of household and business devices.

Also looking to the future.

I dare say that the value of the pound currently played a part, but no doubt all those new 'free trade deals' on the board outside the EU was also a consideration.

Dodger58

SoftBank would have gone through with the purchase whether Brexit happened or not. The change in currency rate was not a factor in the deal.

ARM is very much a Global business. Significant investment is already ongoing in Cambridge (and other ARM locations), this will continue and be expanded further.

pardewalegend

So
Canada
Australia
China

All want to speak to us regarding trade deals

And not forgetting Germany the EU superpower was the very first in line to talk trade deals

IronHerb

So?

ASLEFshrugged

As the world's 5th largest GDP it's no surprise major nations want to agree trade deals but there's no guarantee the deals on offer will be better than the ones we had with the EU. And we're still part of the EU