The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

pardewalegend

Cameron was going anyway, he's seen how much money tony the worst prime minister ever has earns!!

NEoldiron

Pards, have you really, I mean really, thought about the consequences of Brexit or is it a case of suck it and see with you? ;hmm

simonc

I would really like to know if the in opinion holds for Canada, would Canada not be better off in the larger trading group of the USA? i think it is a fair comparison, & i doubt there are very few that think it would be good for the Canadians. This goes some way to explain my feelings towards a United Europe

MrsGrey

are you drawing a parallel between the UK and Canada?

Seems a bit of a stretch.

simonc

Yes and Why? Canada has prospered as an independent nation bordering on the largest trading block in the world while maintaining its identity and social structure. I am confident the UK can prosper in its own right without being required to accept European burocracy

claretandbluesky

My overall feeling has always been that regardless of the issue of whether we like the EU or not, as many remainers do not either, that it is strategically not the right thing to do at this time. We may in principle wish to leave but in practice it is hard to find a strategic argument for it at this time, as it exposes us to a great deal of risk.

I tend think of things like this with regard risk and reward and I can only see a massive exposure to potential risk and offset by only a relatively small reward at a stage a long way down the line. I don't envisage that we end up with the benefits of trade etc and a taking back of immigration control etc as I tend see a free trade deal with some pretence of limiting immigration in which we may have ended up giving up all voting rights, vetos and opt outs to have delivered a leaving, in name only. As to leave and then discuss trade deal is fraught with danger as these things can take years and apparently we don't even have any trade negotiators.

I think it really was a case of Dave playing with fire and not only getting burnt but also nobody knowing how to treat the burns sustained.

Another point is that I found the most compelling argument to leave to be the one about our infrastructure not being able to cope with the growth in population through immigration. But everyone including Boris seemed to make clear that everyone who was already here would be able to stay, so not much reward for the vote coming anytime soon.

I think the problem was austerity and a lack of investment in infrastructure because cam, and Os were wed to austerity. My personal feeling is that we had the right vote at the wrong time and it would have served us better as a nation to have got rid of the conservatives at the last election and ended austerity. Sadly Labour were and are a shambles and offered no opposition that instilled confidence.

SuzanneClaret

pardewalegend said:

Cameron was going anyway, he's seen how much money tony the worst prime minister ever has earns!!

No he wasn't.

He said publicly he was going to stay as party leader and PM and stand at the next general election.

pardewalegend

No he didn't Suzanne

He made it perfectly clear his job was nearly done, and I think he done a terrific job whilst there.

NE
Yes I have thought about, have you thought about the possibility of how good it could be for us to be out of the eu??

NEoldiron

Pards, before the referendum I read comments, opinions, analyses, projections etc from a variety of sources of different political colour. I came to the conclusion that to leave the EU would be disastrous for the UK in both the short-term and long-term future.
I also thought it was extremely reckless to entrust the future of the UK directly in the hands of voters, although I still don't understand how Parliament has been by-passed.
I still believe that it should be Parliament that decides in light of the present state of the economy and the probability that Brexit will leave the UK permanently diminished, that the referendum result is viewed for what it actually is - i.e. non-legally binding.
Parliament should then reject Brexit as not being in the national interest.

NEoldiron

Claretandbluesky, well said ;ok

pardewalegend

Ne

The problem for you now is a lot of people in the new cabinet believe in brexit so if that's the case and they believe it's in the best interest of the country you are now happy to leave!!

MrsGrey

simonc said:

Yes and Why? Canada has prospered as an independent nation bordering on the largest trading block in the world while maintaining its identity and social structure. I am confident the UK can prosper in its own right without being required to accept European burocracy

Canada is massively dependent on the US for both imports and exports.

They have a population half of the UK and vastly more natural resources.

The situations seem quite different.

Whitehorsehammer

pardew. I think May has been very shrewd putting pro leave in charge of sorting out how leaving may work, when they find out how difficult it would be and start to backtrack Mrs May can say, it's the pro leave that are now saying this is not a good idea, not me.

claretandbluesky

I am not sure how optimistic about the outcome I am Whitehorse but this is my hope, that Boris and co are forced to engage properly with their EU counterparts, begin to build relationship which prevents them simply throwing stones at them, work out that perhaps it wasn't the best idea after all, add in to that some assistance from the EU in reforming themselves in this time and we may have something resembling the best for all parties with regard the EU national interest and the EU's interest. As in my opinion it's hard to see how this current trajectory is going to help either party, and paths that do this are not usually followed. Often you get a deal in which only one part benefits, often both but very few deals where no one benefits.

Yeoldhammer

UK will not be like Canada because I don't think the UK will exist soon. England will become a tinpot nation with not much to offer.

IronHerb

;doh

PrestonHammer

pardewalegend

The U.K. Won't exist!!!
How's that are Scotland leaving NO
They have right to another vote they voted in when try knew we had a referendum and may well leave...

Tip top nation what 5 th biggest economy in the plant and London the financial epicentre...

Come on

NEoldiron

Pards, no idea what you're talking about. ;hmm

Tomw85

I think you need to put a 'no' after 'they have' in the third line. Other than that it makes sense to me.

To be honest I actually think that the original comment by Yeold is in need of more explanation than Pards response.

If we keep talking to country and economy down then it is more likely to drop. I have a colleague who is so down about it and is talking that way to her clients that she is now losing business. Then on the other hand there are those of us that are getting on with things and it has been business as normal for now (as much as can be with all that has happened).

Yeoldhammer

Scotland will go. If this happens. The UK idea will go with it.

Our financial services will be dismantled very quickly when EU nations decide to not use the UK financial hub, along with the new Banking investment systems being created in China and so on. There is a reason why people say you should start learning Mandarin for the future because that's where the business world is going.

pardewalegend

How will Scotland go they can't have a vote

pardewalegend

I don't share your pessimistic views yeold

Yeoldhammer

lol, they will get another vote, as soon as the Scottish public vote in another round of SNP members. It will give them a mandate to call for another referendum because Scotland as a country voted to Remain ahead of Leave (in the EU referendum). I don't share your view that you think you will be able to tell Scotland to put up and shut up. It will not happen.

pardewalegend

I wished they had voted out last year that would amuse me to watch Scotland go bankrupt
Especially with that horrible women at the helm

pardewalegend

Yeold
And Teresa may has no powers of blocking it??

ASLEFshrugged

Suze & Pards - before the 2015 election Cameron said if he won he wouldn't stand for a third term as Prime Minister but he would serve the full five years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-32022484

Canada signed a free trade agreement with USA and Mexico in 1994, the North American Free Trade Agreement or NAFTA. It doesn't allow free movement of labour but it abolished tariffs on goods and services.

Whitehorsehammer

Scotland voted in it's independance referendum to remain part of the UK as it was part of the EU, if they had known they would be taken out of the EU I think the outcome would have been the other way.

Yeoldhammer

Of course she can block it, like she has the power to Block the Brexit referendum result with the rest of parliament. But they can't side line the democractic wishes of the public because they would simply lose face and take one hell of a beating in the next election Lib Dem style.

pardewalegend

They can if there Scottish lol