The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

ASLEFshrugged

His constituency might be in Cheshire but he has little connection with the area, he grew up in the posh bit of Notting Hill, went to school at St. Paul's in Barnes, the third most expensive school in the UK after Eton and Harrow (the other Bullingdon Club members called him Oik).

He says he can edit the Standard in the morning and attend parliament in the afternoon/evening, not sure if his constituents will agree with him....

He wanted to be a journalist when he left Oxford, got turned down by the Times and the Economist before doing a bit of freelancing for the Telegraph. Now he's got a whole newspaper to play with!

NEoldiron

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/17/george-osborne-london-evening-standard-editor-appointment-evgeny-lebedev

The headline is just further indication of how the Brexit referendum result was manipulated, along with all the readers of the right wing press.

TheMadcapLaughs

NE, manipulation of "the people" to further the aims of "the rulers" is nothing new. And if I were on Twitter I would be starting a new hashtag: #thanksgeorge. Because he has confirmed to me beyond words what politicians are all about. Themselves. If you think fake news is new, this was written over 125 years ago:

......the millions spent on propagating pernicious doctrines by means of the press, and news "cooked" in the interest of this or that party, of this politician or that group of speculators.

Not a lot has changed really....................

MrsGrey

... we still make generalisations about whole groups of people. ;wink

TheMadcapLaughs

"people" is stretching it a bit.......................

MrsGrey

;biggrin

ASLEFshrugged

Madcap - are you saying that anyone who enters politics does so out of self interest? I was elected as a union health and safety representative, did I do that to advance my situation rather than because I was interested in safety at my workplace? I'm a Labour Party member, did I join in order to personal enrich myself in some way?

claretandbluesky

The new problem of the age old tactic of using information and news providers as a means to manipulate the masses for the agenda of the ruling class is that due to social media and the masses love affair with it anyone can enter the fray and have a go, which is what has happened. Populism is really about a new ability to manipulate through new channels and new peoples abilities to enter what was a closed room. Donald Trump, a man with no previous experience of public office is now POTUS. Brexit would have been unthinkable moments before it even happened and the tide only seems to have turned (hopefully) with the recent Dutch general election, in part I feel due to what happened in the UK and US alerting people to the fact that regardless of how Dave Cameron and Don Trump treated it, that politic is not a game, that the negotiation of power needs taking seriously as there are potentially massive consequences.

My hope is that the French will reject Le Pen and then the only casualties will have been likely ourselves and temporarily the US, they may have to wait four years to vote him out but may get rid sooner if the first 3 months are anything to go by. With regard ourselves it would be hard to argue we don't deserve what's coming due to the way May, Boris etc have conducted themselves in joining in the red white and blue street party, the price to the tory decision to protect their party and act as though the referendum of June 23rd trumped very other single consideration and argument. One of the greatest casualties here and the US is dialogue and the divisions will last a longer than Osbourne's new job I feel sure.

TheMadcapLaughs

I think "politics" is fine. But I don`t like professional politicians, and with each passing day my view becomes stronger and deeper. I personally find it mind numbingly insulting that the architect of austerity (we`re all in this together) is "busy" coining it in whilst life for the rest of us is getting tougher and tougher. And no, not all politicians are bad people, although I don`t have any empirical evidence to back this up, I just happen to think they are barking up the wrong tree. That`s assuming that the tree hasn`t been killed by acid rain or felled by illegal loggers looking for a quick buck.

ASLEF, I would assume that your actions and choices are probably based on altruism. You are not a politician so I have no problem with your actions or motives. It has been argued that altruism is a predominant trait within human nature and this trait if left unsullied by the systems forced on us from above would be "enough" to organise society in a fair and just manner. It is the very systems forced on us and bolstered and perpetuated by "leaders" that are evil. Politicians are the talking heads that represent these systems so in my book are by direct association evil. It is a well known truism that power corrupts.

Trump describes ordinary people (immigrants) as "bad people", people fleeing war, persecution, exploitation, famine etc etc etc. I think there are more "bad people" running countries than there are "bad people" bobbing about in little rubber boats.

TheMadcapLaughs

C&B, I don`t like the people that are being voted in or the people that are potentially being voted in, the chap in Holland with the hair still has the second biggest party and gained five seats, hardly a crushing defeat. Le Pen is appealing to the white working class. As did Trump. Big business ran out of people to exploit in the developed countries so in the name of globalisation moved production to the Far East, China and India. It was sheer greed and the unadulterated pursuit of profit that decimated traditional industries and working class areas in America and Western Europe, and all with the blessing and co-operation of our esteemed leaders. Whole communities were destroyed so we can (temporarily) buy things a bit cheaper and big business can make HUGE profits. People before profits is a distinctly left wing adage, however, the baton has been picked up by the right in the name of populism and who can blame people for voting for them. A return to the "free" market ethos espoused by governments of all colours in virtually all countries in The West is definitely not the answer. Le Pen has promised to put French people and French jobs first and protect French industries, she could just as easily be called a state communist or state capitalist as "far right". These policies seem inward looking, xenophobic, nationalistic and protectionist, but if politicians of all countries had had the guts over the past 40 years to foster, encourage and protect their little piece of the planet rather than pursue globalised grand schemes (a metaphor for exploiting people and resources on distant shores) then we wouldn`t be in this mess in the first place. Communities and the sense of community were sacrificed at the alter of profit and ordinary people are fighting back. It is just unfortunate that the very parties on the traditional left who are/were meant to represent these people seem to be the most detached and white working class people were left with little choice but to vote for parties on the right.

claretandbluesky

I don't disagree with you Madcap, the problem is as you describe in my view but the answer, also only in my view of course, is that Brexit, Trump, Le penn, Wilders are not the answer. My fear is that if these false solutions are adopted they will make things much worse and harder to fix, I have always felt that the poorest among the population will be hit hardest by the politics of Brexit and Trump.

TheMadcapLaughs

BBB, as much as I admire revolutionary politics, I would never have the stomach for it, and I suspect that of the vast majority of people. We in the West have won huge gains in freedom and economic benefits over the years and I don`t think any politician would be stupid enough to take them away, although many rights and freedoms have been eroded over the past 40 years. My biggest gripe is that all we have done is move a lot of our problems from 150 years ago abroad, but we seem to be OK with that. I 100% believe there is a better, simpler way of doing things and would voluntarily and happily surrender to such a system, the problem is I am probably in a very small minority. I do think the days of revolution are over, although I agree there could well be major unrest in countries but I think these will be short lived, sporadic and certainly not organised revolts. Footballs going well. ;angry

MrsGrey

Democracy, innit. ;puzzled

MrsGrey

No way to run a country.

SuzanneClaret

ASLEFshrugged

Today we've had numerous reports about the Chinese taking over South West Trains.

In most news items the fact that Hong Kong MTR are just a 30% stakeholder in the new franchise and UK transport conglomerate First Group hold the majority 70% was buried somewhere near the bottom.

None of the reports mentioned that Hong Kong MTR have been running trains in the UK for the last 15 years, they were 50/50 partners in London Overground from 2002 until 2016 and have been running TfL Rail 100% since 2015 (which will eventually transform into Crossrail).

Maybe the news media thought that mentioning these facts would detract from the headline or they were simply ignorant of the situation but either way it is a fine example of how poorly served the UK public are by its news media (and the social media is equally as ill informed).

The UK's biggest problem; ignorance.

IronHerb

BBC news mentioned MTR being involved already.

ASLEFshrugged

The BBC website mentions that MTR will run Crossrail in the future and the item on the BBC London segment of the 6pm News mentioned they already run services out of Liverpool Street. Everyone else just seems to have cut and paste the DfT press release.

Vorselaarhammer

Wow women have legs, who knew...

MrsGrey

Daily Mail ;doh

Vorselaarhammer

MrsGrey

New Thread

http://www.whu606.com/discussion/10138/brexit-the-next-stage-the-art-of-the-deal