The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

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  • edited July 2016
    Outcast, I didn't mean to imply your endorsement, sorry if it came over that way. ;ok
  • edited July 2016
    IronHerb said:

    Another misconception: On a report in Hull one of the reasons given for voting to remain in was that Siemens were opening a new plant to produce the blades and other parts for wind turbines and they though a leave vote mean they would pull out (based on the remain campaigns warnings).

    Siemens had already invested £630 million in the new plant so were hardly going to throw that away.

    This is a Global Company with many stings to its bow and they already have numerous sites in the UK and around the world and whether we are in or out of the EU is probably of little consequence to them. One of the projects my company works on (which I client manage) involves over 170 locations world wide including many in Europe. When visiting I spend as much time on conference calls with the other locations as I do with the people I an visiting - why? because when they run their own projects they involve people all over the world working together for the common aim (no lesson learning intended but is apt at this time I think).


    Ahead of the referendum, the company was vocal in expressing its fears about the negative effects of Brexit.
    In the spring, it told its workforce that increased costs and uncertainty caused by the UK leaving the EU could make the UK a less attractive country to do business in.
    The giant conglomerate also warned that its plans to export wind turbine blades from a new facility in Hull were being put ON HOLD.
    The £310m manufacturing hub in the city will employ about 1,000 people.
    The company has insisted this investment will continue and will be used to meet local demand, but Mr Kaeser said new trade barriers could make it uneconomical to export the blades to Denmark and Germany.
  • Ahead of the referendum, the company was vocal in expressing its fears about the negative effects of Brexit.
    In the spring, it told its workforce that increased costs and uncertainty caused by the UK leaving the EU could make the UK a less attractive country to do business in.
    The giant conglomerate also warned that its plans to export wind turbine blades from a new facility in Hull were being put ON HOLD.
    The £310m manufacturing hub in the city will employ about 1,000 people.
    The company has insisted this investment will continue and will be used to meet local demand, but Mr Kaeser said new trade barriers could make it uneconomical to export the blades to Denmark and Germany.
  • Meanwhile in Spain its £ = €1.15
    I am still glad we out ;biggrin
    Let's face it,, we would probley had euro forced on us if the remain won ;weep
  • edited July 2016
    Not really.

    In 1992, the UK and EU signed a treaty under which we can opt out for as long as we want to.

    #factattack
  • MrsGrey, I don't think it's worth bothering, to paraphrase the Verve " The Facts Don't Work"
  • The point of posting that link Mrs G was to show that we are already being approached by Countries outside of the EU who want to trade with the UK on a free trade basis. If we start do doing deals before we sit down with the EU to thrash out the Brexit deal, if the big Companies who export to us from the EU get jittery about losing business because of those deals (i.e. we can buy just a good and cheaper elsewhere), then they are more likely to 'lean' on their gov't's and EU negotiators to give us a better deal which will also benefit them.

    I'll giver you a good example: I recently had a South Korean made car for three years, it was a modest 1.6 CDR xi, one off the top level in its range, all the extras in with the price as standard. The Equivalent Audi A3, VW golf, BMW 116 and Mercedes cost between 4 - 7K more with extras at additional costs. The service intervals were longer (20K), mileage was better, Top speed was slightly less, but who actually drives at 135+ on British roads apart from idiots. It was a pleasure to drive it, very comfortable and easy to drive and handle, never had a problem with it.

    Thanks to a change in company policy (mine being a French owned Company, decided to support it's own countries industry) resulted in me being given a French made Company car, which by the way cost almost 3K more then the South Korean car I previously had (I actually asked for the same model as new as the replacement), and I have had nothing but problems with it.

    A higher price and Market name does not mean you are getting value for money or a better deal.
  • IronHerb said:

    Ahead of the referendum, the company was vocal in expressing its fears about the negative effects of Brexit.
    In the spring, it told its workforce that increased costs and uncertainty caused by the UK leaving the EU could make the UK a less attractive country to do business in.
    The giant conglomerate also warned that its plans to export wind turbine blades from a new facility in Hull were being put ON HOLD.
    The £310m manufacturing hub in the city will employ about 1,000 people.
    The company has insisted this investment will continue and will be used to meet local demand, but Mr Kaeser said new trade barriers could make it uneconomical to export the blades to Denmark and Germany.

    And After the vote as reported in the Offshore Wind Journal:

    Siemens in the UK has issued a statement in which it has tried to allay fears about its intentions now that the UK has voted to leave the European Union (EU). Siemens’ new facility at Hull in the UK – which will build blades for offshore wind turbines for the UK domestic market – is approaching completion, but further investment decisions, particularly those that could have seen the UK exporting components to other markets for offshore wind, seem likely to have to wait until Brexit arrangements between the UK and the EU are finalised.

    In the immediate aftermath of the vote last week in the referendum on UK membership of the EU – which saw a small majority of voters express the desire to leave – Siemens’ UK chief executive Juergen Maier suggested that although the company would press ahead with the blade factory for offshore wind turbines that it is building at Hull in the UK, further plans might be put in doubt or be put on hold.

    This morning Siemens issued a further statement in which it said: “We are 100 per cent committed to our investment in Hull and the 1,000 new jobs. We have already hired 300 there. So far, Hull is primarily focused on the domestic market. However, if we and – very importantly – the much wider offshore industry located in the Humber, want to export in the longer term, we need to understand arrangements, such as for export and EU-funded R&D, between the UK and the EU.”

    Speaking at the Global Offshore Wind conference and exhibition in Manchester last week, representatives of Siemens said that, overall, the facility in Hull will be larger than an existing facility at Esbjerg in Denmark the company uses for other projects, and would be a more efficient facility than the Danish plant, with important synergies between assembly and manufacture and logistics. Siemens officials said “thousands” of jobs had been created at the facility and in the supply chain, and highlighted the growing UK content of turbines produced there and the significant effect that investment has had in the region as a whole.

    Addressing delegates at the conference, Ray Thompson, head of business development at Siemens wind power UK, said September 2016 would see the first blade produced at the new facility. Once fully operational, it will be capable of manufacturing 450 blades a year. An offshore service centre at the same facility is due to be completed in September and work on new quayside facilities is progressing well. At the pre-Brexit conference, Mr Thompson also told delegates that the new facility would, hopefully, export blades in due course.


    So as they already stated, investment on hold pending the outcome of the trade agreements, current investment an jobs safe with more to come (currently 300 which will go up to 1,000, not including the supply chain jobs created) -they want to expand and export, all they are doing is waiting to see what the trade arrangement will be.
  • That could take quite some time - up to 6 years according to some estimates.

    I don't think they'll hang around that long for Hull. If there are markets and opportunities to exploit, Siemens will surely get on with investing elsewhere, rather than sit on their hands until they are in a position to make a decision about whether or not to invest further in the Hull facility. (Since, even after the decisions is made, there will be a long lead time until production kicks in, surely)
  • We have the right person in place as the new PM
    And she will not be bullied at the negotiating table and rightly so
  • pardew

    What's 'bullying' or 'tough' got to do with anything?

    Negotiations hinge on what either party cannot afford not to have.

    You can come over as hardline as you like, but if you really need something, eventually you have to give up what it takes to get it.
  • She's decimated the police force and completely moosed up border control.

    I'm so looking forward to seeing what she can do now she is in charge of everything.
  • edited July 2016

    We have the right person in place as the new PM
    And she will not be bullied at the negotiating table and rightly so

    Correction - you have the only person left standing as the PM. She is a punt by the Tories, nothing more . She has no mandate and should call an election.
    ;doh
    She can't just call an election, thanks to the Fixed Term Parliament Act 2011 you either need two votes of no confidence in the space of 14 days or two thirds of the House voting for an early election.

    Seeing as the Tories have a small majority with four years left in government if she did manage to get enough votes for an early general election and then lost she'd probably be the shortest serving PM since George Canning, Tory, 1827, 119 days, died after catching the flu attending the funeral of Frederick, Duke of York (yes, the Grand Old one with 10000 men and all the marching).

    Since 1945 we've had 14 Prime Ministers including Ms May, half of them got the job because the previous PM quit, indeed four of the last eight have done so. Only once did the new PM call a general election immediately afterwards, that was Antony Eden who only had a year left after Churchill retired, the economy was booming after austerity and Labour was suffering the same left-right split it is now.
  • Its like putting the Sith in charge..
  • MrsGrey said:

    Not really.

    In 1992, the UK and EU signed a treaty under which we can opt out for as long as we want to.

    #factattack

    NEoldiron said:

    MrsGrey, I don't think it's worth bothering, to paraphrase the Verve " The Facts Don't Work"

    Perhaps "Image" wasn`t so far wide of the mark. We may have been forced in to joining the Euro by economic circumstance and necessity, not by choice:

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/uk-will-be-forced-join-euro-leave-eu-if-brussels-power-not-reformed-says-report-1453735

  • i disagree grey

    This country along with the Eu have a lot in offer do we need a stern negotiations to take place and I have confidence in her.

    As for a snap election why!!

    Labour or lib dems as our alternatives
    Lololololololololol
  • http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10935617/After-2020-all-EU-members-will-have-to-adopt-the-euro.html

    We may have signed a document to opt out as long as we want, but remaining in The EU may have meant joining the Euro was inevitable. A single currency in principle seems to make sense, but when you look deeper the economic and political consequences are unavoidable. More control from Brussels, simple as. I think The Euro would have been forced on us by default.

  • Why snap elections?

    Oh, I don't know, what about giving the people the right to choose, which seemed to matter immensely not so long ago?

  • You would have thought that having two women competing for the job would have gone down well with the Tory cabinet, rekindling fond childhood memories of the trial-by-combat phase of their nanny selections, but May was seen as the safer pair of hooves. She immediately vowed to unite Britain – my guess is against the poor. She will no doubt introduce a cap for migrants. Probably an orange cone with an “M” on the front that gives out an electric shock if they stray too close to a golf course.

    Credit; Frankie Boyle
  • pardew

    What's 'bullying' or 'tough' got to do with anything?

    Negotiations hinge on what either party cannot afford not to have.

    You can come over as hardline as you like, but if you really need something, eventually you have to give up what it takes to get it.

    Maybe pards was thinking if the negotiations got a bit physical?

    Lol
  • Why snap elections?

    Oh, I don't know, what about giving the people the right to choose, which seemed to matter immensely not so long ago?

    Do you see the Tories holding two votes of no confidence in themselves? Or all the other parties ganging up together with at least 12 Tory rebels to vote down the government? Even if Theresa May wanted a General Election I'm not sure the rest of the Tory party would back her because some of them might lose their seats.
  • ASLEF

    Just saying what I think should happen, not that I expect it to.
  • I think that the people calling for a snap election in the hopes that it might allow a party in who will not go ahead with Brexit would be in for quite a shock and that it would further add supporters to UKIP.

    I voted to leave but the last thing that I would want to see is UKIP come to power. Even though I have not been a massive fan of May I actually think that she will have more of a chance of uniting the government than Leadsom would have and that is better for stability for the economy. We have already seen the £ start to recover since the announcement that May will get in.

    I do hope that May sticks to her pledge that Brexit means Brexit and that we can get on with forging new trade agreements and negotiating our exit from the EU.
  • Like the Sith united against the Jedi's.
  • On the snap election, why? I understand people saying that May was not voted for, but in the UK we don't vote for the PM, we vote for our local representative ... From that angle nothing (well very little) has actually changed.
  • Sadly the 2011 Fixed-term Parliaments Acts makes it almost impossible, we can thank Cleggers for that as he sponsored the bill which makes his call for an early election rather odd.
  • Dodger

    It depends whether or not May intends to bring in her own policies.

    If she only acts on previously stated Conservative electoral policies, it won't make any great difference, but if she introduces new policies, then that would, for me, make a difference, since no one actually voted for those policies to be enacted.

    Whilst we may not actually vote who is to be PM in an election, I think it would be naive to imagine that who the leader of the party was (and therefore PM in potentia) had no effect on how people vote.

    Elections, at least in terms of media coverage, have become steadily more 'presidential' over the years, imo.
  • Grey, I do agree with you on several levels, but if they did call an election the likely main alternative has even less idea what policies they would be presenting. Unfortunately I don't think the policies make much difference to many voters who tend to vote on party lines, with the odd 'protest vote'.

    One of the things that always annoys me is when ministers claim they have a 'mandate from the people' to implement one policy or another - this is clearly wrong as those who do vote based on policies base their choice on the range of policies not each individual one.
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