The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

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  • NEoldiron said:

    AKA, so the economy tanks with all the consequences of that - taxation hikes, services cuts, austerity for foreseeable future etc. etc. - and you're proud? Or just too stubborn to admit the referendum was a huge mistake? ;angry

    Sorry NE, I`m a little confused, are you talking about the previous ten years or the next ten years??
  • MrsGrey said:

    ;ok

    Plus loads more in travel allowances, attendance allowance (although as President of that group he doesn't actually have to attend to get the allowance) expense allowances, subsistence allowances etc.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11725041

    He is just a hypocrite, imo.

    Not a hypocrite, no. He has been campaigning for donkies years to deliberately make himself redundant?! he said he is staying on as an MEP to watch them like a hawk, which I think he will.

    And the link you have provided clarifies and crystallises my view, thanks. What a waste of hard earned...................

  • MrsGrey said:



    As for the leavers not coming through on certain issues this is nothing we have not seen before..

    It normally happens after every general election ;ok

    Although after 4 years, we can vote them out and try a different approach.

    Not a option here, sadly.
    And how do we vote out the unelected Eurocrats?

    Mrs G. I think you are a secret Outer............................ ;biggrin
  • NEoldiron said:

    And another thing I'm really bored with is this idiotically flippant attitude the leavers seem to have adopted in the face of potentially the biggest crisis since the, errmm, last biggest crisis ( ;biggrin for the leavers)

    "Idiotically flippant" You do say the nicest things.

    And when did this last big crises hit, and the previous one, and the one before that. Could it have been when we were members of The EU. And could it be that the consequences of the last big crises for countries tied more closely than us to Europe, those that adopted the Euro, those that are governed by the European Central Bank, are compounded by this "closeness". And you think we are mad for wanting out. The people in Brussels want more control, they want ever closer ties, and you think this is a good thing. The EU as a viable economic trading block has failed, is failing, and will continue to fail in its current guise. The UK as an independent economy, with the pound, the Bank of England, and its own autonomous government is far better placed to ride out any crises, past, present or future. Why do we need to be tied (shackled and bound) to Brussels apron strings to succeed??? We`re better than that.
  • edited July 2016



    Both the state schools my daughters go to have had funding slashed in recent years - many things like music provisions simply taken out. Paint peeling from the walls, heaters not working, drinking water fountains not working. Parents basically being told to make a monthly contribution to keep certain services going. Meanwhile, 3 miles down the road, in an area where population has been bursting, tens of millions spent on stunning state of the art high tech school facilities. All this whilst we are merrily enjoying a fine existence in the EU.

    I must be missing the point here.

    Underfunding for schools is a result of govt austerity policies/budget cuts coupled with poor planning in terms of predicted rise in pupil numbers in some areas plus the ideological decisions to (a) removing control from local authorities who are better placed to react to local demographic changes and (b) take money from state school budgets to give to the private sector and 'free' schools.

    Then reflect on the changes that have been made to the national curriculum, and the national testing regimes, which have served to basically downgraded things like art and music.

    Add to the mix the problems of recruiting teachers when they are leaving the profession in their droves, and pay freezes, it is no surprise that school budgets are stretched.

    I fail to see how the EU has caused this.
  • The EU is totally the cause of this - as Pards has pointed out - huge immigration numbers into this country with the U.K. powerless to do anything about it.

  • edited July 2016
    Sorry. I don't accept that.

    For the following reasons:

    1. the numbers of EU migrants as a % of the population are small, and the numbers of children proportionately smaller.

    2. All robust evidence is that immigrants as a whole contribute more to the economy than they take out. As a group, they make a NET contribution.


  • Aaah. So it is immigration!
  • Slightly off topic but Oscar pistorius has just been given 6 years for murder. Which, if he keeps his powder dry might only end up being 2 years. He might end up being out of prison before the UK is out of the EU

    Wow, just wow.. ;doh
  • bbb ;ok


    I met a Brexiter yesterday.

    He calmly explained that his was a protest vote, against free movement of Syrian and other refugees. But - he added in a reassuring voice - I shouldn't worry, because despite the vote, Brexit will never happen.


    Words failed me.
  • I don't disagree that the bankers have been a huge contributor but I would hazard a guess the vast majority of them voted remain. Fact still remains (from the every day things I see and experience) that there is less money to serve an infrastructure which has too many people reliant on it.
  • edited July 2016

    Fact still remains (from the every day things I see and experience) that there is less money to serve an infrastructure which has too many people reliant on it.

    baracks, I agree - but for me it is a case of 'less money allocated by choice' rather than the absence of sufficient money.

    Which is why I was unconvinced by many of the 'out' arguments: I believe that the finger of blame (for many of the things that I feel DO need to be sorted out) was pointed in the wrong direction.
  • Slightly off topic but Oscar pistorius has just been given 6 years for murder. Which, if he keeps his powder dry might only end up being 2 years. He might end up being out of prison before the UK is out of the EU

    Wow, just wow.. ;doh

    He`d wanna be out of prison before the UK is out of the EU, cos I think the way things are going we`ll be in it for the foreseeable. I can see myself in the distant (apocalyptic) future telling my great grand daughter "believe it or not we voted out of this mess more than 40 years ago"........"grandma, great gramps is telling fibs again"........"what she saying grandma? I can`t understand her German accent"......
  • edited July 2016
    I wish I could give you more agrees.

    ;hmm Maybe I can tweak the database to get Izzy's automatically re-directed to you. ;wink
  • edited July 2016
    Madcap - naked xenophobia ;hmm
  • Me and 17m others then ;ok
  • NEoldiron said:

    Madcap - naked xenophobia ;hmm

    Youv`e lost me??

    Unless you`re talking saucy to me.............. ;wink
  • edited July 2016
    Explanation Madcap - great granddaughter speaking German ;wink

    Baracks, and the next step is racism. ;hmm
  • edited July 2016

    Slightly off topic but Oscar pistorius has just been given 6 years for murder. Which, if he keeps his powder dry might only end up being 2 years. He might end up being out of prison before the UK is out of the EU

    Wow, just wow.. ;doh

    Criminal, just criminal. The minimum sentence in SA for murder is 15 years.
  • How long has he served already? (Genuine question, I stopped following the whole circus a while back.)
  • ;lol

    I wondered if I`d logged into my "other" website by mistake.......................
    ;nonono
  • A polite reminder to be polite...

    I know this issue is emotive, but can we try to avoid using negative epithets for either group and stick to the issues?

    This is a general comment, not in response to any one post.
  • Not all Brexiteers are Racists - but all racists will be Brexiteers..

    Racism can take many forms you know

    You will get the blatant name callers

    But also those who play their part in making sure minorities do not progress to levels seniority in their chosen professions and thereby help to ensure glass ceilings remain in place - still racist

    So are all those in the second category brexiters too?
  • Things keep getting quoted about migrants being a net contributor based on government figures. It may well be true, who knows. What I have a problem is that according to the national statistics office over 1million more NI numbers have been issued than official immigrant numbers. Where are they? If nobody really knows how many there are how do we know correct numbers
  • They were short-term migrants. You can relax. ;wink

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/12/ons-short-term-migration-explains-national-insurance-gap
    ONS analysis has conclusively shown that ... in the year to the end of June 2014, long-term migration by EU citizens was 223,000 while short-term migration was 251,000 – giving a total of 474,000. In the same period, 421,000 national insurance numbers were given to EU citizens.
  • Not all Brexiteers are Racists - but all racists will be Brexiteers..

    And how does this square with Jeremy Corbyns (alleged) anti semitism.
  • edited July 2016
    By allegations, do you mean the unfounded allegations resulting from deliberate media misrepresentation of his speech welcoming the independent report of an investigation into anti-semitism in the Labour Party where he said that all the reports recommendations would be implemented?

    The speech where “He was making no comparison whatsoever between Israel and ISIS or anyone else. He was making the comparison which I make in my report" as explained by the author of the report, who added "I take responsibility for what felt like the deliberate misrepresentation of the leader’s speech by people who are very quick to misunderstand and condemn.”

    Those allegations?
  • Madcap

    What is the substance of the claim, rather than the airy 'there are allegations'?

    There isn't one that I can see. A comment was pounced on, and labelled anti-Semitic. Corbyn clarified his intention. Shouldn't that be the end of it?

    Seems to me people are looking for stuff that isn't there.
  • Mrs Grey ;ok

    Can everyone remember that immediatly following the Brexit vote, Mark Carney found £250 BILLION down the back of the sofa to support the 'markets' and the pound.

    I dont believe that we havent got the money, and I do believe that the current situation in the UK is one of managed decline, due to a lack of long term investment in our Economy.
    Money has been cut from local councils, which directly impinges on their ability to fund school places, and training programmes have been cut for the NHS so that we find we have to recruit abroad. The pressure of immigration, or our ageing population on our services has either:
    1. Not been assessed correctly = Criminal Incompetence
    2. Has been assessed correctly = Government choice

    Either way, it is not the fault of Immigration or Europe.

    Totally agree with this (as a brexiteer) apart from the last two words. I see the EU as a major contributory factor. The system is rotten from the top down. Less politicians equals less waste equals more money to address the very issues which seem to occupy us all. There are enough resources, they are just poorly managed and above all unfairly distributed.

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