The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Pards for PM if you ask me

Lol

;biggrin

SuzanneClaret

Lol

Ravel49

Lol

MrsGrey

pardewalegend said:

As for the leavers not coming through on certain issues this is nothing we have not seen before..

It normally happens after every general election ;ok

Although after 4 years, we can vote them out and try a different approach.

Not a option here, sadly.

grey_til_I_dye

mike

Had the positions been reversed I would have stuck with my initial position:

this was not an issue that should have been left to a referendum

pards


However we are OUT now regardless

Er, no, not at the moment we're not, and won't be until

a) a Prime Minister triggers Article 50

b) parliament approves it

NEoldiron

And here's something more for the leavers to slap themselves on the back for - read to the end:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36715806

and also from "Current account deficit"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36713356

Colchester_Iron

lol

Swissiron

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

yep sums it up, whats that a 73K a year job right there?

and the rest - more like a gross tax equivalent of 200k

NEoldiron

AKA, so the economy tanks with all the consequences of that - taxation hikes, services cuts, austerity for foreseeable future etc. etc. - and you're proud? Or just too stubborn to admit the referendum was a huge mistake? ;angry

Expat_Hammer

NE, on the radio yesterday morning they were mentioning tax CUTS
You haven't been reading the BBC again, have you ;puzzled

baracks_a_hammer

NEoldiron said:

AKA, so the economy tanks with all the consequences of that - taxation hikes, services cuts, austerity for foreseeable future etc. etc. - and you're proud? Or just too stubborn to admit the referendum was a huge mistake? ;angry

Both the state schools my daughters go to have had funding slashed in recent years - many things like music provisions simply taken out. Paint peeling from the walls, heaters not working, drinking water fountains not working. Parents basically being told to make a monthly contribution to keep certain services going. Meanwhile, 3 miles down the road, in an area where population has been bursting, tens of millions spent on stunning state of the art high tech school facilities. All this whilst we are merrily enjoying a fine existence in the EU.

So I too am slapping myself on the back. So hard in fact that it is red raw. The only regret being that this choice wasn't given years ago.

TheMadcapLaughs

NEoldiron said:

AKA, so the economy tanks with all the consequences of that - taxation hikes, services cuts, austerity for foreseeable future etc. etc. - and you're proud? Or just too stubborn to admit the referendum was a huge mistake? ;angry

Sorry NE, I`m a little confused, are you talking about the previous ten years or the next ten years??

TheMadcapLaughs

MrsGrey said:

;ok

Plus loads more in travel allowances, attendance allowance (although as President of that group he doesn't actually have to attend to get the allowance) expense allowances, subsistence allowances etc.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11725041

He is just a hypocrite, imo.

Not a hypocrite, no. He has been campaigning for donkies years to deliberately make himself redundant?! he said he is staying on as an MEP to watch them like a hawk, which I think he will.

And the link you have provided clarifies and crystallises my view, thanks. What a waste of hard earned...................

TheMadcapLaughs

MrsGrey said:

pardewalegend said:

As for the leavers not coming through on certain issues this is nothing we have not seen before..

It normally happens after every general election ;ok

Although after 4 years, we can vote them out and try a different approach.

Not a option here, sadly.

And how do we vote out the unelected Eurocrats?

Mrs G. I think you are a secret Outer............................ ;biggrin

TheMadcapLaughs

NEoldiron said:

And another thing I'm really bored with is this idiotically flippant attitude the leavers seem to have adopted in the face of potentially the biggest crisis since the, errmm, last biggest crisis ( ;biggrin for the leavers)

"Idiotically flippant" You do say the nicest things.

And when did this last big crises hit, and the previous one, and the one before that. Could it have been when we were members of The EU. And could it be that the consequences of the last big crises for countries tied more closely than us to Europe, those that adopted the Euro, those that are governed by the European Central Bank, are compounded by this "closeness". And you think we are mad for wanting out. The people in Brussels want more control, they want ever closer ties, and you think this is a good thing. The EU as a viable economic trading block has failed, is failing, and will continue to fail in its current guise. The UK as an independent economy, with the pound, the Bank of England, and its own autonomous government is far better placed to ride out any crises, past, present or future. Why do we need to be tied (shackled and bound) to Brussels apron strings to succeed??? We`re better than that.

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer said:

Both the state schools my daughters go to have had funding slashed in recent years - many things like music provisions simply taken out. Paint peeling from the walls, heaters not working, drinking water fountains not working. Parents basically being told to make a monthly contribution to keep certain services going. Meanwhile, 3 miles down the road, in an area where population has been bursting, tens of millions spent on stunning state of the art high tech school facilities. All this whilst we are merrily enjoying a fine existence in the EU.

I must be missing the point here.

Underfunding for schools is a result of govt austerity policies/budget cuts coupled with poor planning in terms of predicted rise in pupil numbers in some areas plus the ideological decisions to (a) removing control from local authorities who are better placed to react to local demographic changes and (b) take money from state school budgets to give to the private sector and 'free' schools.

Then reflect on the changes that have been made to the national curriculum, and the national testing regimes, which have served to basically downgraded things like art and music.

Add to the mix the problems of recruiting teachers when they are leaving the profession in their droves, and pay freezes, it is no surprise that school budgets are stretched.

I fail to see how the EU has caused this.

baracks_a_hammer

The EU is totally the cause of this - as Pards has pointed out - huge immigration numbers into this country with the U.K. powerless to do anything about it.

MrsGrey

Sorry. I don't accept that.

For the following reasons:

1. the numbers of EU migrants as a % of the population are small, and the numbers of children proportionately smaller.

2. All robust evidence is that immigrants as a whole contribute more to the economy than they take out. As a group, they make a NET contribution.

IronHerb

Aaah. So it is immigration!

baracks_a_hammer

Slightly off topic but Oscar pistorius has just been given 6 years for murder. Which, if he keeps his powder dry might only end up being 2 years. He might end up being out of prison before the UK is out of the EU

Wow, just wow.. ;doh

billybondsbeard

Stat attack

"The Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimate that in 2014, 8.3 million people living in the UK were born abroad, around 13% of the total population of the UK. Of these, 3 million were from countries now in the European Union and 5.3 million were from non-EU countries."

Its not immigration that is the cause of our problems.
From the figures above, based on our UK population in 2014 of around 64 million, only 5% of immigration was from the EU. and 8.3% from non EU.

3 million is such a relatively small number that it is scarcely relevant, as I say, it is only 5% of the 2014 population. The other 8.3% we have always had, coming in from elsewhere and the Commonwealth.

The problems we all face has been caused by government Austerity measures, and the the bank bailouts (lest we forget) - where capitalist debt was conveniently Socialised.
When in trouble, the elites will want to shift the blame onto the immigrants and the poor - its standard practise. Supported by a compliant media who provide the 'facts'.

I could go on, but there are so many books out there.....

For Entertainment - watch 'The Big Short' - great film.

MrsGrey

bbb ;ok


I met a Brexiter yesterday.

He calmly explained that his was a protest vote, against free movement of Syrian and other refugees. But - he added in a reassuring voice - I shouldn't worry, because despite the vote, Brexit will never happen.


Words failed me.

baracks_a_hammer

I don't disagree that the bankers have been a huge contributor but I would hazard a guess the vast majority of them voted remain. Fact still remains (from the every day things I see and experience) that there is less money to serve an infrastructure which has too many people reliant on it.

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer said:

Fact still remains (from the every day things I see and experience) that there is less money to serve an infrastructure which has too many people reliant on it.

baracks, I agree - but for me it is a case of 'less money allocated by choice' rather than the absence of sufficient money.

Which is why I was unconvinced by many of the 'out' arguments: I believe that the finger of blame (for many of the things that I feel DO need to be sorted out) was pointed in the wrong direction.

TheMadcapLaughs

baracks_a_hammer said:

Slightly off topic but Oscar pistorius has just been given 6 years for murder. Which, if he keeps his powder dry might only end up being 2 years. He might end up being out of prison before the UK is out of the EU

Wow, just wow.. ;doh

He`d wanna be out of prison before the UK is out of the EU, cos I think the way things are going we`ll be in it for the foreseeable. I can see myself in the distant (apocalyptic) future telling my great grand daughter "believe it or not we voted out of this mess more than 40 years ago"........"grandma, great gramps is telling fibs again"........"what she saying grandma? I can`t understand her German accent"......

billybondsbeard

Mrs Grey ;ok

Can everyone remember that immediatly following the Brexit vote, Mark Carney found £250 BILLION down the back of the sofa to support the 'markets' and the pound.

I dont believe that we havent got the money, and I do believe that the current situation in the UK is one of managed decline, due to a lack of long term investment in our Economy.
Money has been cut from local councils, which directly impinges on their ability to fund school places, and training programmes have been cut for the NHS so that we find we have to recruit abroad. The pressure of immigration, or our ageing population on our services has either:
1. Not been assessed correctly = Criminal Incompetence
2. Has been assessed correctly = Government choice

Either way, it is not the fault of Immigration or Europe.

MrsGrey

I wish I could give you more agrees.

;hmm Maybe I can tweak the database to get Izzy's automatically re-directed to you. ;wink

NEoldiron

Madcap - naked xenophobia ;hmm

baracks_a_hammer

Me and 17m others then ;ok

TheMadcapLaughs

NEoldiron said:

Madcap - naked xenophobia ;hmm

Youv`e lost me??

Unless you`re talking saucy to me.............. ;wink