The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

MrsGrey

Madcap, I don't follow your logic that (you seem to be saying, but I may be misreading) there is waste, poor management and unfair distribution of resources ....

this is caused by being a member of the EU and also by our own govt policies and ideologies (ie too any politicians).......

And that if we leave the EU, things will improve because there will be more money available (and fewer politicians interfering).

You see, I would add to that: but our govt will persist with its policies and ideologies and will just carry on as before, but just with more money to mismanage and distribute unfairly. So leaving the EU will not achieve very much, and we will lose a lot of other things at the same time (which I would rather we keep).

TheMadcapLaughs

Grey, which is why I said alleged (and perhaps he is anti semitic, who knows?), it was said to support the point made by Baracks. What BBB said was as sweeping as it gets, I`m sure if we looked hard enough we could find racists who voted Remain. I`m not sure that every hedge fund manager, stockbroker, banker and general "city type" that voted remain has not uttered, just once, the phrase "damned foreigners". In fact I`d bet my brand new mortgage on it.

TheMadcapLaughs

https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/42976/Dont+give+racists+the+credit++for+the+Leave+vote

And not a graph or pie chart to be seen.

TheMadcapLaughs

So perhaps not as straight forward as:

Not all brexiteers are racist......but all racists will be brexiteers.......

I`ve said this before, it`s a smear by association and offensive. Even more offensive if one happens to be naked!? ;puzzled

TheMadcapLaughs

Mrs G. My logic is that "The System" is rotten. It looks after its own, those at the top, the elite, the EU amplifies, sustains and exacerbates this situation. I am a firm believer in less government, less layers of bureaucracy, less laws, less rules. The opportunity to kick Brussels in to touch was too good an opportunity to miss. I would then hope/pray that we start to "chip away" at the system here. The current vogue seems for more government and more non elected officials, bonkers in my book. Again I will ask: WHAT DO THEY DO ALL DAY????????????

NEoldiron

Madcap said
"I`m not sure that every hedge fund manager, stockbroker, banker and general "city type" that voted remain has not uttered, just once, the phrase "damned foreigners" "

As if that is the only type of Remainer there is.
I'm an electrician who happens to believe that the EU, for all its faults, is overall beneficial.
I also agree it needs reforming and the UK was probably the loudest voice for reform.
I believe that reform will eventually happen but we will be outside of it to our detriment.

AKA are you wearing those badges with pride? ;hmm

Billy ;clap ;ok

TheMadcapLaughs

BBB. Pint??? I think you mean 500 millilitres. Pasty??? I think you mean Pastry enclosed meat and vegetables of a non specific origin.

And BBB. I agree with everything you say. Perhaps the extra money won`t be spent (initially) on the NHS or schools, but I don`t think they will get away with this for long. I sense a bit of a sea change in British politics, I think that the politicians will be less likely to ignore voiced concerns and maybe won`t "carry on regardless" as they`ve done in the past. That`s my hope anyway.

TheMadcapLaughs

And BBB; like you I think that certainly in the short term The UK will be best represented by a broad cross section of ideologies. I said about 350 pages back that a coalition government of some description would be the best way forward. We need to have the best people at the helm for now, whatever their political persuasion, working for The UK, not themselves.

TheMadcapLaughs

NEoldiron said:

Madcap said
"I`m not sure that every hedge fund manager, stockbroker, banker and general "city type" that voted remain has not uttered, just once, the phrase "damned foreigners" "

As if that is the only type of Remainer there is.
I'm an electrician who happens to believe that the EU, for all its faults, is overall beneficial.
I also agree it needs reforming and the UK was probably the loudest voice for reform.
I believe that reform will eventually happen but we will be outside of it to our detriment.

AKA are you wearing those badges with pride? ;hmm

Billy ;clap ;ok

Edit: stockbroker, banker, electrician and general city type...........

It was said to highlight the point that (despite agreeing with almost everything BBB says) his statement that " not all brexiteers are racists....but all racists are brexiteers"
is clearly 100% wrong. That surely is indisputable. Isn`t it??

MrsGrey

TheMadcapLaughs said:

BBB. Pint??? I think you mean 500 millilitres. Pasty??? I think you mean Pastry enclosed meat and vegetables of a non specific origin.

MadCap, I get that you are just having a joke about this.

But this type of jokey remark hides a serious issue - people have been exposed to years of lies and disinformation, myths and hoaxes about the EU ... banning bendy bananas or custard creams, kids being banned from blowing up balloons and so on. A certain Mr Johnson (enthusiastically helped by the tabloid press) was a leader in this field, and he admits it was blatant lies. Even though it didn't stop him repeating them.

This constant drip feed of utter rubbish has lodged itself in the minds of many and contributed to their Euroscepticism. But much of it is deliberate lies, with other measures purposely misrepresented to bias readers against the EU.

Ravel49

What will happen to eurotrash ;puzzled

baracks_a_hammer

I'm at a school sports day today and have been speaking to a fellow parent who is a teacher in a secondary school - she has told me that there was a considerable amount of hostile pressure put on by the majority remain teachers towards not only the Brexit teachers in the staff room but also those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain

In the aftermath I was also told there are remain teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

No doubt someone will post some statistics and percentages which will know none of this sort of thing goes on.

imagelost

If we discount the Scottish votes
Some one tell me the stat's?

TheMadcapLaughs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94

You are right Mrs G, we are drip fed rubbish from all angles each and every day. But, why do we need ANY type of rule/regulation from The EU regarding bananas?? Why do they feel the need to regulate EVERYTHING. If I saw on the internet this afternoon that the government had repealed the law as to regards driving on the left, do you think I would think Wahoooo, great, I`ve always wondered what it would be like to drive on the right.............................

I think the point is that I really don`t need someone getting paid a considerable salary to tell me that a firm green banana is preferable to a shrivelled brown one.

IronHerb

Mrs IH teaches in a secondary school and said there was little discussion of the referendum and certainly no pressure from either side.

One anecdote does not the truth confirm!

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer said:

I'm at a school sports day today and have been speaking to a fellow parent who is a teacher in a secondary school - she has told me that there was a considerable amount of hostile pressure put on by the majority remain teachers towards not only the Brexit teachers in the staff room but also those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain

In the aftermath I was also told there are remain teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

baracks, I have no idea how accurate this account is by your fellow parent.

However, since you have spoken out on this thread about how you think it is wrong to use the example of some Leavers to make sweeping generalisations about ALL leavers, you might think about not taking one instance that you have been told about and generalising to all teachers.

TheMadcapLaughs

Sorry, above link isn`t working, but it basically took you to the current rule regarding bananas sold in The EU

IronHerb

TheMadcapLaughs said:

Sorry, above link isn`t working, but it basically took you to the current rule regarding bananas sold in The EU

It's ok Madcap. The link has probably been sabotaged by a Remainer to stop the truth getting out. ;lol

MrsGrey

But, why do we need ANY type of rule/regulation from The EU regarding bananas??

My understanding is that it isn't regulating bananas as such, but setting out classifications for Class 1 and Class 2 bananas.

Because bananas are traded internationally and you need to know what you are getting for your money and that what the seller means by Class 1 bananas matches what the purchaser thinks they are getting and paying for.

OK, maybe you can argue there doesn't need to be a standard classification. But I can see why, in the interests of transparency and avoidance of legal wrangles down the line, a standard term might be thought useful.


My info comes from the actual EU site, rather than wikipedia. Which while often great, isn't always to be relied on.

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/media/euromyths/bendybananas.html

TheMadcapLaughs

And with a nod to BBB. Bilic for next Prime Minister............

MrsGrey

Further to the banana issue, did you know that it was industry that asked the EU to come up with a standard classification. There had always been classifications, long before the EU, but different countries did it in different ways. Which was confusing for international trade.

TheMadcapLaughs

Ironherb ;lol

And Mrs G. ;lol

I can`t believe the pair of us (sane, rational adults I`m led to believe) are spending our afternoon looking up the current legislation regarding bananas.

;lol

I used to have a life. Bloomping referendum.....................

MrsGrey

;lol

It's great, innit!


;wahoo

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer

MrsGrey said:

baracks_a_hammer said:

I'm at a school sports day today and have been speaking to a fellow parent who is a teacher in a secondary school - she has told me that there was a considerable amount of hostile pressure put on by the majority remain teachers towards not only the Brexit teachers in the staff room but also those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain

In the aftermath I was also told there are remain teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

baracks, I have no idea how accurate this account is by your fellow parent.
.

Ok, so the parent I spoke to was making it all up and what what iron herb has reported is what is going on up and down the country

That would be entirely in keeping with the accepted notion that the brexiters are all stupid, uneducated, dishonest racists.

Glad that's all sorted ;ok

IronHerb

Don't start misquoting me barracks. I never said that.

MrsGrey

baracks, why are you putting words in my mouth??

I never said he/she was making it all up.

However, they refer to
'a considerable amount of hostile pressure' - what does that mean exactly. the person who spoke to you might feel they were subject to this... but the point is, it is subjective. How much is considerable? What kind of 'hostile pressure'. Lively discussions in the staff room seem to me perfectly OK. To be told they will fail their next performance review is not.

those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain how many? what does 'implore' mean? I can't see how the parent-teacher was in all those classrooms at the same time, so at least SOME of what you have been told is their interpretation of events or hearsay.

teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How many? Won't talk to them about anything? Or just won't discuss the referendum?

My point is - I believe that you are telling the truth when you pass on what you have been told by your friend. But those comments are open to interpretation and don't necessarily reflect accurately what has gone on.
--

Also, you give one example of a school where something bad happened. IronHerb gave one example of a school were nothing bad happened.

What can we infer from this about what has gone on in the other millions of school in the UK?

Nothing.


They are 2 anecdotes.

grey_til_I_dye

baracks

Sorry, but that looks very much like you are choosing to misread a comment just so you can have a pop.

The point of the post was clearly to refer to your attitude to sweeping statements, and how you chose to generalise from one reported conversation:

However, since you have spoken out on this thread about how you think it is wrong to use the example of some Leavers to make sweeping generalisations about ALL leavers, you might think about not taking one instance that you have been told about and generalising to all teachers.

No one is obliged to respond to posts others make referring to comments they have made, but it is reasonable to expect that if they do, they respond to the actual post, not some made up version of it.

baracks_a_hammer

Mrs g

Iron herb posted that according to Mrs h there was little discussion et. In that school

Conveniently you chose not to question the accuracy of that statement, but chose to question what I reported from another teacher

Coincidence or what?

MrsGrey

IH didn't draw any conclusions from what he reported from his wife. That's why I didn't respond to him.

You did. You drew conclusion fron your example. Which is why I responded to you - because I disagreed with your conclusion.

You made a disparaging comment about Remain voters who are teachers ....

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

basedon the information given to you by your fellow parent.

I am saying that I don't think your comment is fair. I certainly don't agree with it. And I tried to show why I thought the foundation you built it on wasn't solid enough. Which is why I focussed on the unreliability (as I see it) of what your friend told you.