The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

TheMadcapLaughs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94

You are right Mrs G, we are drip fed rubbish from all angles each and every day. But, why do we need ANY type of rule/regulation from The EU regarding bananas?? Why do they feel the need to regulate EVERYTHING. If I saw on the internet this afternoon that the government had repealed the law as to regards driving on the left, do you think I would think Wahoooo, great, I`ve always wondered what it would be like to drive on the right.............................

I think the point is that I really don`t need someone getting paid a considerable salary to tell me that a firm green banana is preferable to a shrivelled brown one.

IronHerb

Mrs IH teaches in a secondary school and said there was little discussion of the referendum and certainly no pressure from either side.

One anecdote does not the truth confirm!

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer said:

I'm at a school sports day today and have been speaking to a fellow parent who is a teacher in a secondary school - she has told me that there was a considerable amount of hostile pressure put on by the majority remain teachers towards not only the Brexit teachers in the staff room but also those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain

In the aftermath I was also told there are remain teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

baracks, I have no idea how accurate this account is by your fellow parent.

However, since you have spoken out on this thread about how you think it is wrong to use the example of some Leavers to make sweeping generalisations about ALL leavers, you might think about not taking one instance that you have been told about and generalising to all teachers.

TheMadcapLaughs

Sorry, above link isn`t working, but it basically took you to the current rule regarding bananas sold in The EU

IronHerb

TheMadcapLaughs said:

Sorry, above link isn`t working, but it basically took you to the current rule regarding bananas sold in The EU

It's ok Madcap. The link has probably been sabotaged by a Remainer to stop the truth getting out. ;lol

MrsGrey

But, why do we need ANY type of rule/regulation from The EU regarding bananas??

My understanding is that it isn't regulating bananas as such, but setting out classifications for Class 1 and Class 2 bananas.

Because bananas are traded internationally and you need to know what you are getting for your money and that what the seller means by Class 1 bananas matches what the purchaser thinks they are getting and paying for.

OK, maybe you can argue there doesn't need to be a standard classification. But I can see why, in the interests of transparency and avoidance of legal wrangles down the line, a standard term might be thought useful.


My info comes from the actual EU site, rather than wikipedia. Which while often great, isn't always to be relied on.

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/media/euromyths/bendybananas.html

TheMadcapLaughs

And with a nod to BBB. Bilic for next Prime Minister............

MrsGrey

Further to the banana issue, did you know that it was industry that asked the EU to come up with a standard classification. There had always been classifications, long before the EU, but different countries did it in different ways. Which was confusing for international trade.

TheMadcapLaughs

Ironherb ;lol

And Mrs G. ;lol

I can`t believe the pair of us (sane, rational adults I`m led to believe) are spending our afternoon looking up the current legislation regarding bananas.

;lol

I used to have a life. Bloomping referendum.....................

MrsGrey

;lol

It's great, innit!


;wahoo

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer

MrsGrey said:

baracks_a_hammer said:

I'm at a school sports day today and have been speaking to a fellow parent who is a teacher in a secondary school - she has told me that there was a considerable amount of hostile pressure put on by the majority remain teachers towards not only the Brexit teachers in the staff room but also those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain

In the aftermath I was also told there are remain teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

baracks, I have no idea how accurate this account is by your fellow parent.
.

Ok, so the parent I spoke to was making it all up and what what iron herb has reported is what is going on up and down the country

That would be entirely in keeping with the accepted notion that the brexiters are all stupid, uneducated, dishonest racists.

Glad that's all sorted ;ok

IronHerb

Don't start misquoting me barracks. I never said that.

MrsGrey

baracks, why are you putting words in my mouth??

I never said he/she was making it all up.

However, they refer to
'a considerable amount of hostile pressure' - what does that mean exactly. the person who spoke to you might feel they were subject to this... but the point is, it is subjective. How much is considerable? What kind of 'hostile pressure'. Lively discussions in the staff room seem to me perfectly OK. To be told they will fail their next performance review is not.

those teachers imploring their pupils to go home and encourage their parent to vote remain how many? what does 'implore' mean? I can't see how the parent-teacher was in all those classrooms at the same time, so at least SOME of what you have been told is their interpretation of events or hearsay.

teachers in that school who now won't speak to their Brexit colleagues.

How many? Won't talk to them about anything? Or just won't discuss the referendum?

My point is - I believe that you are telling the truth when you pass on what you have been told by your friend. But those comments are open to interpretation and don't necessarily reflect accurately what has gone on.
--

Also, you give one example of a school where something bad happened. IronHerb gave one example of a school were nothing bad happened.

What can we infer from this about what has gone on in the other millions of school in the UK?

Nothing.


They are 2 anecdotes.

grey_til_I_dye

baracks

Sorry, but that looks very much like you are choosing to misread a comment just so you can have a pop.

The point of the post was clearly to refer to your attitude to sweeping statements, and how you chose to generalise from one reported conversation:

However, since you have spoken out on this thread about how you think it is wrong to use the example of some Leavers to make sweeping generalisations about ALL leavers, you might think about not taking one instance that you have been told about and generalising to all teachers.

No one is obliged to respond to posts others make referring to comments they have made, but it is reasonable to expect that if they do, they respond to the actual post, not some made up version of it.

baracks_a_hammer

Mrs g

Iron herb posted that according to Mrs h there was little discussion et. In that school

Conveniently you chose not to question the accuracy of that statement, but chose to question what I reported from another teacher

Coincidence or what?

MrsGrey

IH didn't draw any conclusions from what he reported from his wife. That's why I didn't respond to him.

You did. You drew conclusion fron your example. Which is why I responded to you - because I disagreed with your conclusion.

You made a disparaging comment about Remain voters who are teachers ....

How reassuring to know that these are the sorts of people who will be teaching and guiding our future generations.

basedon the information given to you by your fellow parent.

I am saying that I don't think your comment is fair. I certainly don't agree with it. And I tried to show why I thought the foundation you built it on wasn't solid enough. Which is why I focussed on the unreliability (as I see it) of what your friend told you.

baracks_a_hammer

Mrs g

I've read and re-read the above

You have clearly made two separate inferences

One on the accuracy of what was said to me - ergo is this person telling the truth and/or have I accurately posted what this person has told me.

The second on sweeping statements etc.

And even if it were only one school that displayed these behaviours, it is one school too many. Luckily my daughter is not at that school else I'd be straight on to the governors and authorities who oversee that school.

thornburyiron

My friends son at one of our local schools was constantly bombarded by the school that they should get their parents to vote remain. This was done during assembly and in some of the lessons every day. He was disgusted to learn his parents had voted leave and to this day has not spoken to them.
I very much doubt it is all schools but I believe it's a very good number.

MrsGrey

You said I was questioning:

One on the accuracy of what was said to me - ergo is this person telling the truth
and/or have I accurately posted what this person has told me.

I posted a few comments back

I believe that you are telling the truth when you pass on what you have been told by your friend.

I also said

I never said he/she was making it all up. But those comments are open to interpretation

As for

And even if it were only one school that displayed these behaviours, it is one school too many.

I agree - in respect of telling kids to go home and persuade their parents to vote a particular way.

TheMadcapLaughs

I can also confirm that at the school where my son and daughter go that there was a "heavy bias" towards Remain. My daughter found this all quite interesting (for about 5 minutes). My son googled to see if "The Outers" or "The Remainers" was available on X-Box, and hence lost interest immediately. He did say though that he would not be best pleased if we voted for Donald Trump.

MrsGrey

I know some schools used the opportunity to stage their own debates and votes.

That, I think is OK.

It is good practice for them, and a good opportunity to learn about things like how to conduct a formal debate, develop public speaking skills and to learn more about the political process.

Equally, I can't see a problem with analysing speeches and newspaper articles (for example, in English lessons) to learn to identify bias, the structure of an argument, how to use and evaluate emotive language and persuasive techniques.

IronHerb

TheMadcapLaughs said:

I can also confirm that at the school where my son and daughter go that there was a "heavy bias" towards Remain. My daughter found this all quite interesting (for about 5 minutes). My son googled to see if "The Outers" or "The Remainers" was available on X-Box, and hence lost interest immediately. He did say though that he would not be best pleased if we voted for Donald Trump.

And you ignored them. ;biggrin

Whitehorsehammer

Here is another angle on this thread. Pardew said many posts back that we are OUT, Grey quickly pointed out that we are not. It is my thought that activating article 50 is a long way off. I cannot see that in view of the magnitude of doing so, along with strong legal opinion, that any one person will be brave or mad enough to do so without parliament voting on it. We all know that a large majority of MP’s want to remain. If that vote were tomorrow I can see that the freshness of the referendum and public opinion would make it difficult for many MP’s to go against public opinion (there will be some, including most SNP). BUT the vote will not be tomorrow, it may well be in six months time. By then things will have changed, the economic effect, which I believe will be bad, will start to impact on peoples lives, which it has hardly done so far. Many MP’s could well then say, in the light of what we now know I cannot vote to activate article 50. That would;d probably force a general election, perhaps a hung parliament with more Lib Dems standing on a remain agenda. It could happen...

baracks_a_hammer

I dont think that will happen white horse.

On my ballot paper there was nothing on it which said, "this is merely a gauge of opinion"

So it's only a question of when article 50 will be triggered. Anything else will likely trigger anarchy.

As for saying the economic effects will be bad within a six month period, that of course is purely an opinion which many may share but many also will not.

AdMeus_CaputFilius

Swissiron said:

TheMadcapLaughs said:

"Should such a momentous decision really be simply made on first past the post?"

How else we gonna do it?

Seems fair to me, a referendum took us in, a referendum has taken us out.

We didnt go in as a result of a referendum. The referendum of 75 kept us in, we entered the EU in 73

No it did not. The EU did not exist in 1973 or 1975, it was the EEC (or Common Market) back then an bore no resemblance to the current EU (except with a Franco-Germanic alliance running it).

Part of the problem has been that whenever there has been a major change from then to transformation to what it is now, the British people have never been given a say on them. Our history within the EU has been one of disagreements and our veto's and ability to withstand the changes that were considered not in our interest eroded.

A lot of the older generation who are still with us and voted to stay in back then that I know voted to leave this time partly on this basis and the concerns that a remain vote would be seen by the EU as a green light to further erode any remaining we had.

simonc

English in the Future... if article 50 is not enacted

Directors at Daimler Benz and Chrysler have announced an agreement to adopt English as the preferred language for communications, rather than German, which was another possibility.

As part of the negotiations, directors at Chrysler conceded that English spelling has some room for improvement and have accepted a five-year phase-in plan. In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Also, the hard "c" will be replased with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but komputers have one less letter.

There will be growing kompany enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replased by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20 persent shorter.

In the third year, DaimlerKhrysler akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reash the stage where more komplikated shanges are possible.

DaimlerKhrysler will enkourage the removal of double letters, whish have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"'s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.

By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps sush as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" by "v".

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be droped from vords kontaining "o", and similar shanges vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis, and employes vil find it ezi to kommunikat viz eash ozer.

Ov kors al supliers vil be expekted to us zis for all busines komunikation via DaimlerKhrysler.

Ze drem vil finali kum tru.

imagelost

Roll on the freedom of imfamasion act
;wahoo

MrsGrey

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/09/young-people-referendum-turnout-brexit-twice-as-high

More up-to-date figures on how many voted in different age groups.

Age 18-24 group = 64% voted rather than the 36% as previously reported.

the lower and wrong estimate was based on information released by Sky Data which relied on data compiled after last year’s general election, which looked at the proportion within each generation who said they always vote.

OutcastLondoner

Why did he have to wear THAT shirt? ;doh