The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

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  • edited June 2016
    I think it was less to 'get Labour voters' (the left) and more to stop the drain to UKIP and the further right.
  • That may be Luke, but in my eyes cameron is a complete coward.
    He asked a question and panicked when the answer arrived he didn't like.
    He asked - What do you want me, as your PM, to do.....
    Oh well, I don't like that so I'll bottle it

    Cameron, you're a complete and utter coward
  • A large % of the labor vote voted for leave so I don't think it is too much of a stretch to believe that a % of that number voted for a referendum at the general
  • edited June 2016

    That may be Luke, but in my eyes cameron is a complete coward.
    He asked a question and panicked when the answer arrived he didn't like.
    He asked - What do you want me, as your PM, to do.....
    Oh well, I don't like that so I'll bottle it

    Cameron, you're a complete and utter coward

    Totally disagree. I don't like Cameron but he followed his party manifesto by allowing the referendum. He fulfilled his promise. That he doesn't want to negotiate the terms of an agreement he does not believe in is, imo, understandable. Even though I an a Remainer (and by the way old) I would not like anyone negotiating on my behalf when they did not have their heart in it.

    He did the honourable thing.
  • Sorry Herb, one we'll agree to disagree on

    As leader he offered the people of the country their choice on a specific matter, but was unprepared to carry out the duties of his office - to represent the views of the electorate regarding that specific matter - and resigned. Moral - I doubt it, after all he's a politician.

    The attempt at a man is a complete and utter coward in my eyes.
  • edited June 2016
    Mine too.

    Nicked off with his huge pension after selling us down the river.
  • edited June 2016
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales

    THIS.

    This is what happens when you legitimise racist views by campaigning on a 'immigration is bad' platform.

    You give people who might have previously kept their odious and ignorant and hateful views behind their own front doors the belief that the majority of people feel the same, and thus they are free to express those odious views in public.


    Makes me ashamed to be British.
  • expat. I see your p-o-v, but if having gone on the record as being against 'leave' ... if he was leading the leave' negotiations, would he have the confidence of the people? Wouldn't they accuse him of making a mess of it so he could later say 'I told you it was a mistake'?

    Personally, I think he's best butting out at this point now that he's lost.
  • Herb ;ok

    Agreed. Can't stand Cameron but he shouldn't have to negotiate something be believes is against the best interests of his country.

    If he believes staying in the EU is the best thing for Britain (which I've no doubt he does believe) then he thinks he is doing the right thing for the country by not being any part of it.

    Let the slimeballs Gove and Boris deal with this abject mess of their own making. It's clear now that they wanted a result other than the one they campaigned for. Their only aspirations were to topple Cameron and they've no plan for what's now been left behind.

    Just about the only person who genuinely wanted what's happened is Nigel Farage. Just let that sink in.
  • Feared to be linked ............ and the proof is where ?
  • It's all his fault.

  • It's all his fault.

    Harsh. Sam did what was required....

    ;run

    ;biggrin
  • ;lol


    Bad child.
  • The referendum undeniably was Cameron's fault. He promised it to pander to the growing UKIP and right-wing to wing an election. For that I'll never forgive him or that slimeball Osborne.

    Nobody has a lower opinion of Cameron than me, and I still think he's done the right thing by resigning. The Leave campaign are banging on now about respective democracy. Well, Cameron has a democratic right to resign his position as leader of the party.

    I think the Leave campaign's real anger at Cameron lies in the fact that they now know those who were apparently the bastions of their campaign have turned out to be malignant sacks of deceitful pus, and nobody wants to step forward and take responsibility for what's happened. It must be worrying for all those voters who wanted Out to see the heads of the campaign suddenly go so quiet. Perhaps they had another agenda?
  • edited June 2016
    Jorderz, cameron asked the people what they wanted HIM to do.

    And bottled it because he didn't like the answer.
  • So Cameron was President? I missed that somewhere along the line....
  • Expat,

    He really didn't though, did he? He never promised to stay on whatever the result as far as I can remember.

    He asked the public whether they wanted to stay in the EU. It was pretty clear to practically everybody that he would resign should the answer be negative, so I'm very bemused why anybody is surprised.

    The referendum was a very big opinion poll. Nothing within its question or its result deals with who or how it should be enacted.
  • edited June 2016
    expat, with respect no.

    The Tory Party had the offer of a referendum as part of their manifesto.

    The Tory party was elected to govern.

    The question on the ballot paper was

    Should the UK Remain or Leave the EU.

    The Govt ran the referendum.

    The govt can do what it wants with the results.

    We vote in an election for a party to form the govt, we don't vote for its leader.

    We aren't the USA where we vote for the leader - the party itself elects its leader. The party itself is responsibly for delivering (or not) the outcome of this ballot.





  • Otherwise, we get the scenario where electorate say OUT.

    Cameron tells Parliament he's going to trigger Article 50, because he made a promise and the people want him to..

    They say, no you aren't, and vote against it.

    Tory Party have a vote of no confidence.

    He's sacked.

    He's not PM any more.

    He can't trigger anything.

    But that's OK because it was only Dave's idea and promise?
  • Cameron also said he would stand down before the next election before the last election. I think he has made the wrong move, but I respect his right to make the choice he has made.

    As IronHerb says above
    I would not like anyone negotiating on my behalf when they did not have their heart in it.
    a good point.

    But to help unify the country moving forwards I do believe the Brexit negotiation team should feature people from Remain and be cross-party.
  • MrsGrey said:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/racist-incidents-feared-to-be-linked-to-brexit-result-reported-in-england-and-wales

    THIS.

    This is what happens when you legitimise racist views by campaigning on a 'immigration is bad' platform.

    You give people who might have previously kept their odious and ignorant and hateful views behind their own front doors the belief that the majority of people feel the same, and thus they are free to express those odious views in public.


    Makes me ashamed to be British.

    100% Agree with the last line Mrs Grey. Similar abhorrent behaviour has been seen in Kettering near where I live.

    BUT the Brexit campaign was NOT based on Immigration is bad - that is what the Remain campaign accused it of saying. What was being said is that uncontrolled immigration is bad and the EU Immigration rules are actually discriminatory against non-Europeans, like our close relations in Australia, New Zealand and Canada.
  • The latest in/out discussion on BBC a couple of hours ago were slagging off Jeremy
    Corbyn. Now personally I don't particularly like the guy, but what has he done to
    offend so many people since the vote.
  • edited June 2016
    What a complete shambles all of this is.

    An EU referendum result I (which I assume many) did not expect, which is fine if you wanted it but many didn't and some wish they hadn't voted for.

    Cameron not fulfilling what he said he would i.e. remain Prime Minister no matter what.

    Boris actually realising he may have to go through with what he said he would do, but now understands that it is more complicated than he had contemplated, presuming he does actually want out of Europe.

    Corbyn in a position of no confidence and sacking anyone who doesn't agree with him, yet believes he can still lead a revolution.

    Farage loving the fact he has got what he wanted, despite not being an MP but probably wondering if what he expects to happen, will actually happen, .


    Everyone wondering what the Monday morning stock markets will look like.

    I do wish the result had been different but I guess we need to get on with it.

    Thank goodness we still have West Ham, Bilic and Payet (for now anyway).

    Gove
    ;doh
  • edited June 2016
    Dodger - I take your point that the official leave campaign didn't say that, exactly.

    But that's how many perceived it, lacking your subtlety.

    The whole 'cut immigration' line - which of course predates the referendum - has for a long time been peddled by UKIP (an organisation which openly allied themselves with an avowedly and openly racist MEP so secure their EU funding); it has been part of the Daily Mail's discriminatory racist agenda for years. It is the long-established aim of openly racist groups and individuals. And covert ones too.


    So I am not surprised that the 'officialisation' of a view which seems to support an anti-immigrant position opens the door to more overt and explicit attacks on immigrants. And against people who are not immigrants but have brown skin.

    I maintain that the referendum has legitimised (for some people) the expression of racist views. And for that, I hold the Brexit campaigners mainly responsible, for not distinguishing clearly enough, and for taking advantage of the existing groundswell of hate without sufficient concern for the consequences.

  • Teresa May as the next PM we are going to need a tough cookie.
    Thinks it's time for calm now whilst we embark on a new era.
    We will continue to trade with the EU they need us as much as we need them however we won't have to pay for the privalage.
    We can live and die by our own laws and decisions.
    And there is nothing racist about a points based immigration system ;ok

  • We will continue to trade with the EU they need us as much as we need them however we won't have to pay for the privalage.
    We can live and die by our own laws and decisions.

    In order to trade with the EU, the UK will be required to keep to most current legislation.

    I doubt very much that the UK will be able to negotiate such favourable terms as it currently enjoys.

    End result:

    same rules and laws at a worse rate.

    Excellent effort all round...
  • Why do they need us, exactly?
  • But Grey that's your supposition. Nobody knows for sure
  • I'm not so sure grey
    The good thing about this is that we all think we know but are just guessing
    We pretty much all know nothing

    I would like to think we are stronger than that though but hey time will tell
This discussion has been closed.