The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50
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Comments
I'm saying they had plenty of opportunity to get their voting ducks in a row.
Maybe they didn't want to.
The numbers debate during the referendum campaigns have been appalling by both sides. Let's just keep calm, and see what happens.
The question was not, and never should have been, a party political one. As has been written the ONLY (main) party backing Brexit was UKIP. So the Government didn't lose (although their official line was backing remain), the establishment did.
One of the main criticisms I have of the remain campaign was the number of times Brexiters were asked what they would do with economy/EU cash as if they would be forming a new Government. This was never the case as the Government will not change until the next General Election, even if there is a re-shuffle of the players.
Now the vote has been cast, the Government are being asked many questions before they have had a chance to consider the right approach, remember as I say above, the official Government position was Remain. Patience is required. There is a period of time available to consider and we should take it. The EU don't like it, but it's their rule and I don't remember them being helpful when Cameron was trying to negotiate reform - they were dragging their heels - you reap what you sow!
If the press could stop denigrating our country and actually try to report things accurately as opposed to the huge bias on display for the last couple of months, we might see less hysteria and less divide.
Also, isn't the turnout % of eligible voters?
Personally I think Cameron should have continued, pulled together the Government's Negotiating team with people from all parties and all sides and got on with it. In principal he still could in parallel to the Tory Leadership, but I don't see that happening.
The aside to this is the EU wants to get on with it partly due to their own concerns about national elections next year in France & Germany; and partly, in my view, so they can be seen to be tough on the UK. A little breathing space and time to reflect will actually be good for all, IMO.
Good question on the %, probably, I haven't see the exact figures
It took several phone calls and re-sending of forms before they got it right.
;whistle
The opportunity was there for everyone eligible to vote to make sure they were registered and then to make sure they voted.
As with anything if you decide not to take part you can't complain that you didn't win.
Wonder how many have been moaning since they decided that
Utter joke
Me too.
Although I stopped after about an hour.
In essence it re-states the we don't have to trigger Article 50. The referendum isn't legally binding to the government. Basically he has put it on the next PM to trigger it, but who wants to be the person to do that, knowing the fall out and possible effects. It's why Boris is very subdued on if he is going to run and why the Brexit campaign were so in favour of Cameron remaining on in place and why there is no rush to trigger it and why "we should have informal talks first."
What happens if a candidate says, vote me in I won't trigger it and leaves it until the next general election. Then which party just says "vote for us and article 50 isn't triggered"
From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Just thinking about how any (future elected) government could possibly ignore what the electorate want. I mean, what will be in the manifesto ....
I see Heseltine saying there might not be an exit.
All seems a bit of a shambles, really.
Smart
Or
Snake
Let the people of WHU606 decide
;biggrin
I'm surprised Man U et all haven't declared last season null and void because the champions were not who they expected or wanted.
Boris and Gove are the snakes if they haven't got the bottle to do what they've so desperately campaigned for.
Lots of us would agree that they are pointless... and that a referendum should never have been called on such a complex issue with such far-reaching consequences.
There was every chance leave could win when Cameron came back after negotiating nothing significant and the Germans and French laughing at him but he claiming he'd won something significant. He went into the talks saying I'm all in favour of staying but I have to be seen to becoming something.
Roping in Obama and some of our worst every PM's to help his campaign was also a huge own goal.
;wink