The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

Hamstew

When am I allowed to come out Suze? It's been weeks now.

ironmike44

C&B - in my view it happened because the political elite in the UK became lazy and complacent and allowed the technocrats in Brussels to take more and more control of our lives.

When considering risk and reward many have looked back and assumed that the future in the EU will look like the past. I took the decision about two months ago to switch off any 'programme' where experts/politicians/celebrities were wheeled on to shout the case for in or out. Instead I tried to spend my time finding out a much as I could about the direction and objectives of the EU - what I found led me to believe, and it's only my opinion, that this is an organisation which has all but run its course. It has no future but extinction and, as it has grown this becomes more likely. I believe that it will very quickly unravel and, personnally I believe the sooner our children and grandchildren are encouraged to look globally rather than at the narrow and unstable confines of the EU the better.

Finally, I came to the decision to vote leave for the reasons I have tried to articulate above. Not because I'm a racist or an economist or somebody who wants to make a quick buck speculating on the stock market.

None of us can predict the future but we can at least try to do some research to inform our guess.

And I'll say again - all of the above is just my opinion. Keep your chin up and encourage your lad to see there is a great big world of opportunity out there. ;ok

Dodger58

Moojor said:

Serious question to those who voted to leave.

Did you read or research any independant studies which showed we would be better off leaving the EU?

What did you base your decision on?
What was a deciding factor for you to vote leave?

I am honestly interested.

Moojor try reading something like this ... ukandeu.ac.uk/the-economic-case-for-a-brexit/

Dodger58

grey_til_I_dye said:

Col

They'll be deciding the next prime minister based on receiving just over 1/3 of the electoral votes.

I don't think that people would have accepted a referendum vote that only had 36% of the vote.

Like the logic, just wonder why it doesn't apply to the Remain:Brexit vote

SuzanneClaret

Hamstew said:

When am I allowed to come out Suze? It's been weeks now.

Out!? Out?!

Not you too!

Dodger58

MrsGrey said:

And how will that go down.

UK parliament allows a referendum on EU membership.

Denies the Scots a vote on their own future.

Untenable, surely?

Apart from the fact they had one in 2014? There is no hypocrisy here. In my view the hypocrisy is the SNP's who wand to cede power to the EU but don't accept that the sold power to Westminster.

However, despite the above, I believe Scotland have every right to have a second referendum, make their choice and stick with it. They will have to adopt the Euro and may (or may not) meet the criteria for joining the EU. But the choice should be there's, just as England and Wales's choice was to leave the EU.

Northern Ireland should also be given an independence vote and Gibraltar should be handed over to the EU (94% is quite a mandate).

If we believe in democracy we should accept and live by the decisions made in lawful elections - whether we like them or not.

MrsGrey

Dodger58 said:

Moojor said:

Serious question to those who voted to leave.

Did you read or research any independant studies which showed we would be better off leaving the EU?

What did you base your decision on?
What was a deciding factor for you to vote leave?

I am honestly interested.

Moojor try reading something like this ... ukandeu.ac.uk/the-economic-case-for-a-brexit/

From that essay: There is no credible way a future government can pre-commit to spending the Brexit-dividend in the way the EU currently does.... It may be politically defensible to promise the losers in the short term that they will be protected but in the longer term this will have to be balanced against how the resources may be better used.

;hmm

Jam tomorrow?

Dodger58

No, a statement of fact.

Ironduke

grey_til_I_dye said:

Ironduke

Please don't post things to 'get a reaction'.

Ta.

sorry- only footie from now on

Ravel49

;nonono no trivia ;nonono

MrsGrey

Dodger58 said:

No, a statement of fact.

So there might not actually be any increase in NHS budgets.

The presumption ( or might I say promise) that there would be, is s why many voted - and were encouraged to vote - for 'OUT'

I didn't notice 'Leave' campaign putting any emphasis on that fact.

Which is, I suppose, the way with politics.

The sad thing is, while we can hold politicians to their manifesto commitments in domestic politics, or vote them out a few years later and give the other lot a go, that isn't an option here.

It's a one-time deal.

For every person like Mike who did a lot of research and gave it a lot of though (even though I don't agree with his conclusions) there are those like the person I know who voted out because he doesn' tlike using metric measurements and wants to use only imperial weights and measures.

;weep

Ironduke

Romaine28 said:

;nonono no trivia ;nonono

oh ok - I`ll think on it, might be Icelandic in theme

ironmike44

Mrs Grey - and I would also say for every 'remainer' like you, who have given the matter considerable thought, there seems to be a whole generation of young people who appear to me; mostly worried that they won't be able to jump a flight to Benidorm without getting a visa.

Of course I have no evidence for this claim other than a short conversation with a bunch of lazy layabout students down the pub tonight.

For the record I sadly can't agree with your conclusions either - but I will defend to the death your right to reach them. ;biggrin

steve

;hmm dont want to upset anyone so wont say how i feel ,okay i think it is a mistake to leave ,having said that i do have two spare bedrooms here in canada if anyone is interested .will except a small payment in us dollers or even canadian dollers but no pounds ;biggrin

Yeoldhammer

ironmike44 said:

Mrs Grey - and I would also say for every 'remainer' like you, who have given the matter considerable thought, there seems to be a whole generation of young people who appear to me; mostly worried that they won't be able to jump a flight to Benidorm without getting a visa.

Of course I have no evidence for this claim other than a short conversation with a bunch of lazy layabout students down the pub tonight.

For the record I sadly can't agree with your conclusions either - but I will defend to the death your right to reach them. ;biggrin

We will find out the true result in 15 years.

Until then If political parties choose to ignore a 75% voting demographic, good luck to them in 2020.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

So it appears the older voters have helped cause this brexit

IronHerb said:

And what difference does it make that he's Canadian?

;biggrin

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

steve said:

;hmm dont want to upset anyone so wont say how i feel ,okay i think it is a mistake to leave ,having said that i do have two spare bedrooms here in canada if anyone is interested .will except a small payment in us dollers or even canadian dollers but no pounds ;biggrin

Ditto

;biggrin

IronHerb

There's always money to be made out of a crisis, especially in Canada it seems ;lol

grey_til_I_dye

IronDuke

Feel free to post on any topic you like, so long as the aim is not to 'wind up' other users.

Vorselaarhammer

The two biggest everyday benefit of the EU is a single currency and open boarders.

U.K. Doesn't have either so it becomes for people a more abstract concept.

I am embarrassed by the vote. Now I know how Americans feel when they see Trump running for president.

Pearces_Left_Foot

I think people feel disaccoiated from an orginisation that decamps once a month to Strasbourg at the cost of over a billion pounds a year just to keep the French happy . Even though they voted to scrap the second parliament the French have the right to block the move ;doh I think the EU is a great concept in theory but reality it's a gravy train for MEPs that has taken more power than it was originally intended for . Wether it's a good move only time will tell.

Pearces_Left_Foot

The cost of each MEP is Gbp 1.795 million a year three times the cost of a normal MP

baracks_a_hammer

Clearly there are many people who aren't embarrassed by trump (whatever many may think of him), otherwise he wouldn't have easily got the republican ticket

That's the whole point of democracy for those countries that choose to have it

Expat_Hammer

Vorselaarhammer said:

I am embarrassed by the vote.

Why so ?

Ironduke

grey_til_I_dye said:

IronDuke

Feel free to post on any topic you like, so long as the aim is not to 'wind up' other users.

I am not here to wind anyone up, I am here to entertain...my sense of humour is a tadge off planet sometimes...that particular remark was loosely based on a common phrase of Capt Mainwearings.."I wondered who would spot that first". I accept I worded it poorly

grey_til_I_dye

Ironduke

I didn't think you were.

It's notoriously difficult in Internet communication to convey tone.

It's not ideal, but when posting something tongue-in-cheek, adding a ;wink or a ;whistle can help to clue in other users.

Expat_Hammer

However on a lighter note, now that we have voted to quit the EU, does this mean that UKIP will get disbanded ;puzzled

IronHerb

No, imo. They think they won it, and they probably did, so why would they give up on a seat at the table?

grey_til_I_dye

And they're going to have to find a way to replace the Euro MP salaries they are shortly going to lose...

Pearces_Left_Foot

I think juncker head of European Parliament saying he wanted a European army four days ago wasn't the best idea either. I think people are afraid of the idea of a United States of Europe with France and Germany controlling things.