Slaven Bilic named as West Ham Manager (09.06.15)

Yeoldhammer

alderz said:

I just did some looking at the defensive error stats on Squawka, and I don't think that this is something new.

According to Squawka, we've made 8 defensive errors, 6 of which have led directly to a goal conceded. That's 75% of defensive errors being punished with a goal. After 14 games, that's 0.57 errors per game, and 0.43 goals conceded per game due to a defensive error. On top of that, we've conceded 4 penalties, 3 scored. If you include these, it puts us up to 0.86 errors per game, and 0.64 leading to goals.

Last season, we made 20 defensive errors 14 of which led to a goal conceded, 70%. After 38 games, that's 0.53 errors per game, and 0.37 goals conceded per game due to a defensive error. Including penalties (8 conceded, 6 scored), this puts us up to 0.74 errors per game and 0.53 conceded.

Once you add the penalty stats in, you can see that we are making slightly more errors per game, and being punished slightly more. However, this has been an issue for Bilic's entire reign, so, arguably, he should have addressed that in the summer.

The issue, to my mind, is that we scored 1.71 goals per game last season. This season it's 1.07. Last year, our defensive frailties were hidden because we were scoring freely. Without the goals this season our defense has nobody to bail them out.

Was this not the same last season we made most self inflicted errors.

Lukerz

Yeold - when I say Slav will get it right, that's what I mean (staying up). I have complete faith in him.

Yeoldhammer

No guarantees in football, even if he does stay up. if he really was the person who wanted Zaza / Tore / Nordveit / Feghouli. I would be slightly concerned.

OldCastleSwift

The impression I got was that Feghouli and Nordtveit were more the board's decision (possibly because they were free). Might be way off mark, but I never got the feeling they were Slav's choices necessarily.

Calleri was one of Sully's South American punts, Zaza something of a panic loan and Masuaku a necessity and by Slav's own admission not our first, or even second, choice.

Tore was definitely a Bilic choice, and he's been poor.

eskimoking

alderz said:

I just did some looking at the defensive error stats on Squawka, and I don't think that this is something new.

According to Squawka, we've made 8 defensive errors, 6 of which have led directly to a goal conceded. That's 75% of defensive errors being punished with a goal. After 14 games, that's 0.57 errors per game, and 0.43 goals conceded per game due to a defensive error. On top of that, we've conceded 4 penalties, 3 scored. If you include these, it puts us up to 0.86 errors per game, and 0.64 leading to goals.

Last season, we made 20 defensive errors 14 of which led to a goal conceded, 70%. After 38 games, that's 0.53 errors per game, and 0.37 goals conceded per game due to a defensive error. Including penalties (8 conceded, 6 scored), this puts us up to 0.74 errors per game and 0.53 conceded.

Once you add the penalty stats in, you can see that we are making slightly more errors per game, and being punished slightly more. However, this has been an issue for Bilic's entire reign, so, arguably, he should have addressed that in the summer.

The issue, to my mind, is that we scored 1.71 goals per game last season. This season it's 1.07. Last year, our defensive frailties were hidden because we were scoring freely. Without the goals this season our defense has nobody to bail them out.

I will be stealing this. I keep saying to my mates that our problem is upfront, not in defence, despite the goals conceded and they think I'm an idiot!

It also appears to me that the ball isn't sticking to our front men as much so the ball keeps coming back at the defence too quickly.

Yeoldhammer

OldCastleSwift said:

The impression I got was that Feghouli and Nordtveit were more the board's decision (possibly because they were free). Might be way off mark, but I never got the feeling they were Slav's choices necessarily.

Calleri was one of Sully's South American punts, Zaza something of a panic loan and Masuaku a necessity and by Slav's own admission not our first, or even second, choice.

Tore was definitely a Bilic choice, and he's been poor.

Depends what you believe, I am pretty sure both Slaven and the board have said all signings were agreed by both. So I can only assume that Slav wanted them.

alderz

I think the point with Tore, Nordtveit & Feghouli is that all three (regardless of who identified them) all seemed to be players with the right skills to suit the Premier League. We all know it's a risk to bring players in from abroad, and we've been unlucky with three missing the mark (so far) in one go.

Yeoldhammer

Is it a case of being unlucky or poor recruitment though, none have excelled so did they really have the right skills to being with to suit the Premier League, i'm not so sure?

OutcastLondoner

Feghouli and Tore were also obviously brought in to add depth for Europa and now look pointless given our failure to qualify. I think Feghouli can still prove he can better as well, he showed some energy in the Manchester United game. Tore looks completely rubbish.

alderz

I think being unlucky and recruiting poorly are kind of the same thing at this point. Let's not forget that it's the exact same scouting system that brought in a number if successes last year, so it can't be that the process is fundamentally wrong.

The other thing, is that we don't know for certain that these players aren't suited to the league, they may just be in poor form. For me, if I hadn't seen Payet play before I would currently think he wasn't capable of playing in the league either.

Personally, I thought that both Nordtveit and Feghouli would be good players for us, and have been mightily disappointed by the pair so far, but I do still think they are capable of turning it around.

Lukerz

alderz ;ok

The window for me was not a disappointment due to signings and how they've turned out. I was more annoyed by the lack of funding provided which meant we couldn't afford more established players (those who have a proven record in England). As you said, on paper they looked capable.

Nordtveit - Champions League experience, captain of his former club, international
Feghouli - European experience, international, played for a respected club in Spain
Zaza - international and Champions League experience, came from the biggest club in Italy, was in the Italy squad for a major tournament only in the summer
Ayew - good first season in the PL (less of a risk) and another international, played for the biggest club (historically) in France
Arbeloa - fantastic CV with trophies, big clubs, European experience, big club appearances

Then you had Tore who was a punt. No real impressive CV and no track record in England. But was only a loan. Same goes for Masuaku. Was a punt, only bought as back-up who would not play when Cress was fit.

Then you had the likes of Fletcher, Calleri, Fernandes etc who were signed for the future and not now, but have been used due to the poor impact of the previous signings.

Nordtveit for me looks every inch a CB. I don't know why he can't be a Collins-esque player. I think he needs to move into CB, where he did well in pre-season, and stop taking up the Spector role of being Mr Utility (RB, CDM etc). Maybe he can get a start at Anfield as part of a proper back three, or we can partner him up with Reid as a two? Ayew for me will come good but he is playing in the position where we have the most competition. Feghouli has only had cameo appearances here and there. Too early to judge. I can't see Arbeloa or Zaza cutting it, though, nor Masuaku, Tore or Calleri.

grey_til_I_dye

Lukerz

the lack of funding provided which meant we couldn't afford more established players

What, exactly, are you basing that claim on?

The club bid £30m + for individual players - what did you want them to do?

Moojor

grey_til_I_dye said:

Lukerz

the lack of funding provided which meant we couldn't afford more established players

What, exactly, are you basing that claim on?

The club bid £30m + for individual players - what did you want them to do?

Personally, I would like us to only target bringing in 3 or 4 new players max, spend all our money on those few and then make up the numbers with players from the development squad.

We brought in something like 9 or 10 players this season didn't we?

MrsGrey

We may not have been intending to bring in that many, but we got hit by some late long-term injuries? ;hmm

Fortuneseeker

Zaza has had five starts in the Premier League compared with Feghouli five as a substitute. The latter is a decent player but I doubt we will line up in a way to play to his strengths.

Lukerz

Bit concerned that Slav has already back-tracked on what he said last week. Either say it and stick by it or don't say it.

Adam

I think he was trying to get a reaction from the players, with what he originally said. It would be pretty sadistic to keep on bashing the players in the couple of days before the next game.

I liken it to the army. Break them down to build them back up.

alderz

Adam ;ok

Particularly as he's said that training has been good this week. No need to keep bashing them

Yeoldhammer

in the bottom 3 now (unless a miracle at Liverpool happens) 3 games to save his job against Burnley Hull Swansea imo.

jay_in_cpt

And on Andy Carroll, who made his first start since August he added: “It’s no secret I’m a big fan of him. I’m not a big fan ‘cos he’s a cousin or relative. It’s what I see on the training pitch. He is a miracle. What he gives to the team is massive.”

Slav speaking after the game about Andy..
Just love that comment about cousin or relative ;ok

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

We're a different team with him

Swissiron

What might have been with AC fit these past 3 years.....

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Absolutely Swiss.....doubt we'd of struggled in 1.5 seasons of SA reign and we wouldn't of been in the situation we were this season.

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard

Yeoldhammer said:

in the bottom 3 now (unless a miracle at Liverpool happens) 3 games to save his job against Burnley Hull Swansea imo.

Well he's right on track then isn't he......

He always was and always will be the man, for this club at this particular time

;bowdown

chicagohammer

I must admit that I recall saying, without any evidence whatsoever to back it up, the appointment of Slaven Bilic, just felt right.

And despite some hiccups this season, it still does

MunichHammer

I agree. This season was always going to be difficult. We had to cope with:
a) the new stadium (any team moving seems to have trouble in their first season at their new home)
b) expectations after last season
c) the fact that the new signings didn't work as well as last year's
d) injuries to important players at the start of the season
and subsequently
e) restless and impatient supporters, many of whom were unhappy with any combination of the above.

Yeoldhammer

He's not out the woods yet but if he can get 6 points from Hull and Swansea he will probably get to the end of the season.

grey_til_I_dye

Yeold

I seriously doubt that the Chairmen think along the same lines as you re: Bilic. Certainly their public statements suggest none of the crisis scenario you seem to imagine.

Ravel49

Relegation

Deal with it

;cool

Lukerz

We've had our best XI out over the last few weeks (the only games we didn't were the cup and Arsenal, and we shipped 9).

Spurs (a) 3-2 - best XI
Man Utd (a) 1-1 - best XI
Liverpool (a) 2-2 - best XI (bar a natural striker)
Burnley (h) 1-0 - best XI

I think it's that simple. Once our key players were back, as long as they are putting in a shift, we are going to accumulate points, even if it isn't pretty. We have some talented players. Now that we've gone 3/5 at the back, and you look at the ability of those players in that five (Kouyate, Reid, Oggy, Cress), we are going to stop leaking goals and I can see many more 1-0 wins this season.

I was gutted when we were humiliated by Arsenal, but the side we had out really was shocking.

It's just a shame that we're not as free-flowing as we were last season. It was nice watching us score goal after goal every week.