Euro 2024

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

I do think Pep’s robot football is partly to blame for Foden’s inability to replicate at international level. The same thing has happened to Grealish.

They play in a team that is full of players exactly like them and are all interchangeable, and they play in such a unique way. It’s no surprise to me they can’t play at the same level when they come into the England setup.

Won't lie, find this a bit of a lazy argument I've seen come up a LOT this tournament

Think the problem is Foden has been on the left wing, where he's never been comfortable and the minute he sits as a #10 he looks better

Rodri has played great for Spain (albeit tired), Gundogan has been a German standout, Kevin De Bruyne is the only players who's turned up for Belgium, Ake looked like Hollands best defender

We have Saka, Foden, Bellingham and Kane in the same team and we don't look like scoring. Is there a problem with Artera, Carlo or Tuchel?

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Foden has spent more time on the wings under Pep than in the centre, so I don’t agree it’s a lazy argument. I’m not trying to absolve Southgate of any blame as there are lots of problems aside from Foden not performing as well, but I do think Pep’s system is very particular, and in it he’s surrounded by clones who all pass and move the same way, so I’m not shocked he’s not performing personally.

I seem to remember one of the big things Bayern fans had against Pep was that he took away a lot of the individual genius of players in favour of making them part of a machine. Can’t say it isn’t incredibly effective but I think there’s truth in it.

Having said all that, there’s obviously something wrong with the way Southgate has them set up and has them playing. I watched Spain-Italy last night and the difference in tempo and urgency was so stark compared with England.

OutcastLondoner

Bazshuayi said:

Also, Palmer.... Form player of the season (or definitely one of them). No minutes. I don't particularly want to single out just one player but Saka for Arsenal uses his pace and skills to take people on and commit them. It seemed to me that most of the time he received the ball he cut back and laid the ball off. Is it just because it's England?

Tbh what is Saka supposed to do once he’s committed people and Kane is still ambling forward from a DM position (where he’s giving away the ball).

buffybegood

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Having said all that, there’s obviously something wrong with the way Southgate has them set up and has them playing. I watched Spain-Italy last night and the difference in tempo and urgency was so stark compared with England.

This in a nutshell is why England have consistently underperformed over the years imo. Most of our players look so much better with a quick tempo, it's what has been common in English football, yet England managers don't seem to try to replicate that with the national team.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Foden has spent more time on the wings under Pep than in the centre, so I don’t agree it’s a lazy argument. I’m not trying to absolve Southgate of any blame as there are lots of problems aside from Foden not performing as well, but I do think Pep’s system is very particular, and in it he’s surrounded by clones who all pass and move the same way, so I’m not shocked he’s not performing personally.

I seem to remember one of the big things Bayern fans had against Pep was that he took away a lot of the individual genius of players in favour of making them part of a machine. Can’t say it isn’t incredibly effective but I think there’s truth in it.

Having said all that, there’s obviously something wrong with the way Southgate has them set up and has them playing. I watched Spain-Italy last night and the difference in tempo and urgency was so stark compared with England.

Yea the Bayern fans said that but they still delivered on the international level

It's like people saying Pep has stopped wondergoald but Man City had more goals outside the area than anyone last season

Foden spent time on the wings to allow KDB and sometimes Alvarez, but he hasn't played on the left wing consistently. Speak to any City fan and they all say he's better as a #10 and has been POTY because of KDB injury has allowed him to play there. Even in his own interviews he says he likes playimg i the centre

As I said, see him getting picked out for lack of creativity when Saka, who 100% plays in his natural and preferred position on the right, is doing very very little

The issue is the tempo and the clueless manager who's telling them how to play

steve

For the life of me I don't understand how Southgate got the job in the first place

BubblesNeverDies

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

"clueless manager who's telling them how to play "

This.

BubblesNeverDies

steve said:

For the life of me I don't understand how Southgate got the job in the first place

Exactly, average player and in his only previous managerial job, you guessed it - average.

I blame Wenger:
"In December 2007, Arsenal manager Arsène Wenger suggested Southgate as one of several English managers who were "all good enough" to manage the national team."

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

steve said:

For the life of me I don't understand how Southgate got the job in the first place

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/nov/12/fa-gareth-southgate-england-manager-candidates

Basically, got it as a caretaker basis after Allardyce as he was the opposite, easy guy to deal with, then he did alright and got the perm role

Then obviosuly got the semi-final vs Croatia at the '18 World cup and then the final in the '21 Euros

Now here we are

alderz

He got it because literally nobody wanted the job, and he’d done well with U21s. Same as if he leaves, almost nobody will want the job again. Then it’ll go to Potter, and everyone gets to hate him too.

Ravel49

Poch would be ideal imo

Slacker

Pep’s leaving City next year isn’t he?

Just saying like………

BubblesNeverDies

Can you imagine an Argentinian manager of the England national team at the World Cup?

steve

Should be who is best for the job .No matter where they come from

EXETERHAMMER

Shaw at left back would give balance. Trent can't play in midfield, it really is not his position.

I would play Wharton, Rice and Bellingham in midfield.

At the moment, I would drop Foden and start Gordon on left with Saka on the right.

Kane stays in this formation, but he either stays up top, or runs so much harder.

alderz

steve said:

Should be who is best for the job .No matter where they come from

I don’t agree with this. The players have to be English, managers should be too. It should be the same for all national sides, IMO.

steve

Why limit yourself to such a low pool .when theres the whole world to choose from

alderz

Because what's the point in having a team to represent the country if the people representing it aren't from that country. IMO it completely undermines the purpose of international football.

steve

As long as the players are English even if there by some long lost great great great grandfather of africa .Then i dont care if the manager is from anywhere if he gets the job done ,But that could be just me

ScotHammer

First major VAR controversy of Euros - British officials -
Coincidence? Or our poor interpretation?

buffybegood

alderz said:

Because what's the point in having a team to represent the country if the people representing it aren't from that country. IMO it completely undermines the purpose of international football.

Personally I'd like to see this implemented worldwide, but I can't see it ever happening.

IronHerb

ScotHammer said:

First major VAR controversy of Euros - British officials -
Coincidence? Or our poor interpretation?

Atwell strikes again. poor decision.

Bazshuayi

I this is the way forward. Yes it’s 13 players but we may have a chance!

Watkins Kane
Eze Foden Palmer
Rice Wharton Bellingham
Trippier Guehi Stones Walker
Pickford

MunichHammer

IronHerb said:

ScotHammer said:

First major VAR controversy of Euros - British officials -
Coincidence? Or our poor interpretation?

Atwell strikes again. poor decision.

Did you mean the disallowed Dutch goal? He was effectively blocking the goalkeeper who just couldn't jump to save it. Sure, it's another question entirely if he would have kept it out but he just can't stand there.

IronHerb

The keeper was not in a position to dive.

MunichHammer

Because he had a Dutch player in the way. If he even tries to reach that ball he risks a red card and a penalty.
It is similar to Areola in the game against Wolves (?) last season,only even more obvious. Correct decision in my eyes and the German comms had a ref on board who immediately said the same thing, too.

alderz

I personally thought it shouldn’t have been disallowed, but I also think it was a subjective one. The fact there was a flag from the assistant, and the fact it wasnt clear and obvious, I sort of don’t mind the decision, despite not agreeing.

The thing that’s more frustrating than the decision is that it took them over 5 minutes to make the call. The time it all takes is my biggest issue with VAR, and it’s typical that it would be the English officials that bucked the trend of the tournament and took an age.

IronHerb

MunichHammer said:

Because he had a Dutch player in the way. If he even tries to reach that ball he risks a red card and a penalty.
It is similar to Areola in the game against Wolves (?) last season,only even more obvious. Correct decision in my eyes and the German comms had a ref on board who immediately said the same thing, too.

But if you look at the keepers feet when the shot was struck they were not in a position to launch a dive. Also the keeper didn't seem to complain.

Ravel49

Coufal and Czechia’s answer to Toni Kroos Soucek both start 🤪

Kuchinghammer

I think Southgate rescued English football, and should be remembered for that...
But when the pace needs to be stepped up he just stands there looking worried. He needs to get animated, because the players/robots need galvanising, and they don't get that from their captain.