Moyes In or Moyes Out

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  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Buffy let’s not forget it’s a European competition and you don’t get into it by not doing well in your domestic league or cup the previous season. Roma won it last year and very nearly won the Europa this year and would have qualified for the Champions league.
    It’s not even a week since we win it and now you’re virtually saying it was easy peasy and barely worth it anyway.
  • stevesteve
    Not saying I wanted him to get a new contract ,just a bit surprised .if he had left sure there would have been a team who would have offered him a 3 year deal ,Celtic perhaps Would like to think he loves the c!ub and is happy to stay and see where it goes and at his age money is not the end game
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    thornbury, I'm just being realistic. A lot of the clubs in the group stages weren't even of PL standard, and you can't deny that you'd have been hugely underwhelmed if we'd have lost at any stage before the final.

    I never, ever, said it was barely worth it, I said I'm thrilled we won, but the level of competition was way lower than the FA Cup and even the League Cup now the "bigger" clubs tend to put out stronger sides in the later rounds than maybe they did 10 years or so ago.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited June 2023
    thornburyiron said:

    Buffy let’s not forget it’s a European competition and you don’t get into it by not doing well in your domestic league or cup the previous season. Roma won it last year and very nearly won the Europa this year and would have qualified for the Champions league.
    It’s not even a week since we win it and now you’re virtually saying it was easy peasy and barely worth it anyway.

    No-one is saying it's barely worth it. We all know and appreciate what Wednesday night was worth.

    But to be honest, with the level of opposition that we've seen over the two seasons of ECL, I would expect most mid- to upper-PL teams to reach a ECL final if they took it seriously enough. So as great as it was that we won it, I don't think it's because of Moyes that we did. Given Emery's record in Europe, I fully expect Villa to make the final next season.

    I take your point about qualifying for it though. Moyes did well across the two seasons that we finished 6th and 7th, but let's not forget that the opportunity to finish even higher in both seasons was definitely there. His decision not to strengthen the squad in both Januarys saw our form drop off in the second half of both seaosns.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    edited June 2023
    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    On 1st April we were 19th, having played 26 games.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    Who's cancelling the Conference League? 🤔
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    buffybegood said:

    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    On 1st April we were 19th, having played 26 games.
    On Sunday 2nd April we beat Southampton in our 27th game and finished the weekend in 15th.
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    IronHerb said:

    buffybegood said:

    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    On 1st April we were 19th, having played 26 games.
    On Sunday 2nd April we beat Southampton in our 27th game and finished the weekend in 15th.
    Indeed, but that doesn't change the fact that we were 19th with 12 games to go on 1st April, does it?
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    OldCastleSwift said:

    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    Who's cancelling the Conference League? 🤔
    You can reach the FA Cup and League Cup finals without one tough game, look at Newcastles run. So now we win it despite Moyes and it was simple. Sounds like cancelling to me.
  • SlackerSlacker
    Not getting involved.
    I’m still high.

    WE WON A CUP!🤣❤️⚒
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    edited June 2023
    @IronHerb, Yes we probably did win it in spite of him. My concern is how he is reported to be looking to bring in new players from the inflated English market when there are possibly better & almost certainly cheaper options across Europe or South America. I wait with a large amount of trepidation on how the summer window pans out for us.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited June 2023
    You just can’t sack a guy who has achieved:

    Survival
    6th
    7th & European semi-final
    European trophy

    In 3.5 years. It’s not even debatable.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    IronHerb said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    Who's cancelling the Conference League? 🤔
    You can reach the FA Cup and League Cup finals without one tough game, look at Newcastles run. So now we win it despite Moyes and it was simple. Sounds like cancelling to me.
    Nowhere have I said that it was 'simple'. I just think that we had as much chance of winning it with a different manager than we did with Moyes. Much like Newcastle probably would have made the football league final with or without Howe.

    And to suggest that I'm cancelling the Conference League is nonsense, IMO. I haven't seen us lift a trophy in my lifetime. I know how important EL football next season could be for the future success of the club. I absolutely love the fact that we won the competition.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    buffybegood said:

    IronHerb said:

    buffybegood said:

    IronHerb said:

    Not sure why you are cancelling the Conference League, unless it makes it easier to berate Moyes.
    After falling to 18th after the defeat at Spurs, round 23, we were never in the bottom three after the completed round of games. For the last 12 rounds we were never lower than 15th.

    On 1st April we were 19th, having played 26 games.
    On Sunday 2nd April we beat Southampton in our 27th game and finished the weekend in 15th.
    Indeed, but that doesn't change the fact that we were 19th with 12 games to go on 1st April, does it?
    And this is what does me. You are right. Carry on.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Yeah, maybe just close the thread. We're going around in circles.

    Those that wanted him to stay have their wish, so those of us that wanted him gone have to deal with it.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    edited June 2023
    Lukerz said:

    You just can’t sack a guy who has achieved:

    Survival
    6th
    7th & European semi-final
    European trophy

    In 3.5 years. It’s not even debatable.

    See the last paragraph of OCS's message at 1.06 edited at 1.09.
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    Be interesting to see if he tries to transform us to a Possession based team again or stick with counter attacking. Either way he is going to face a lot of pressure this season.
  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    IMO - it is DM that is taking the bigger risk in staying on, WHU will survive and get through this but I was hoping he would recognize that standing down now whilst on the up, would not be a bad option for him, finally picking up some silverware and despite our flirtation with relegation last season, he can point to a decent factual record over the past three years.

    However, IMO, the evidence in recent years also point to tactics are pretty dour, inflexible and predictable and I fear that we will struggle next year, a number of our senior pros are approaching the twilight of their careers and we are likely to lose Rice, Scamacca and probably few others, so this transfer window is really critical to get right.

    I believe he only has one year left and if it does turn into a struggle, it is surely unlikely that it will be renewed.

    For me, I would step down whilst I still have a glass of champagne in my hand.

  • claretandblueskyclaretandbluesky
    I would state firstly that I think its the right decision to keep him on, as you can't sack a guy who just delivered the first trophy in however many years and the right decision to not offer a new contract. I think we are absolutely entitled to enjoy winning the Conference Cup as we don't get the chance to lift a trophy often, so it's not like a Caraboo Cup to City. A poster asked earlier in the season if we would rather win the conference than stay up and I responded I would rather stay up. Logically that still males more sense but the happiness and joy at being able to celebrate last week has made me chnage my mind.

    However I completely recognise where anyone who didn't want Moyes to stay on is coming from and think it a reasonable position. Our Premiership form has been pretty poor from the end of the previous season through the whole of 22/23.

    I feel an appropriate measure of a manager is what do they get from what they have and I feel Moyes has not really achieved what he should with our players. There are teams with far less achieving much more in the league such as Brighton, Fulham or Brentford.

    Regard the Conference if we look objectively we should have been very comfortable in every match before the final and the first time we played a team from one of the big leagues we were probably second best in all but the result and never really got into the match.

    The outcome I hope for next season is that the players bought from last season are now settled and he gets the best from them. He spends the Rice money wisely and we find ourselves knocking around the 5-8 position again. that he gives the Europa another really good go and we get to enjoy some big European nights again. Yet I would not be surprised if both the club and Moyes recognise at Christmas if perhaps now was the perfect time to part ways. Yet as I stated at the beginning I think it's the right decision for the club and the trophy earns him the right to lead the team come August.
  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    Buffy if you had read what Herbie said in his first statement he said AFTER the completed round of games. So on the Saturday we might well have been 19th but by the end of Sunday, when the round was completed, we weren't.
  • BazshuayiBazshuayi
    Moyes stays... Couldn't see any other outcome once we won the Conference.

    To all the Moyes out people, we'd have got away with it if it wasn't for those meddling kids!

    Onward to see who comes in and who goes out player wise...

    (still have little confidence Moyes will alter from the dour, one trick pony approach though. But the optimist in me hopes he discovers some tactical versatility with the player we have and will hopefully bring in)
  • LukerzLukerz
    Fortuneseeker said:

    Lukerz said:

    You just can’t sack a guy who has achieved:

    Survival
    6th
    7th & European semi-final
    European trophy

    In 3.5 years. It’s not even debatable.

    See the last paragraph of OCS's message at 1.06 edited at 1.09.
    But it’s a hypothetical. There is no way of knowing what was there to be achieved & there are a million things we could’ve done differently to maybe push on those seasons, but there was no guarantee of it.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Yeoldhammer said:

    Be interesting to see if he tries to transform us to a Possession based team again or stick with counter attacking. Either way he is going to face a lot of pressure this season.

    This'll be key. And we might get a clue when the new players start arriving.

    Moyes has said himself that the PL season wasn't good enough. Up to him to show that he can turn it around, both in terms of performances and results.
  • buffybegoodbuffybegood
    PrestonHammer said:

    Buffy if you had read what Herbie said in his first statement he said AFTER the completed round of games. So on the Saturday we might well have been 19th but by the end of Sunday, when the round was completed, we weren't.

    He was the one that argued against what I said, which was simply that we were 19th with 12 games remaining, which is a fact.
  • LukerzLukerz
    I think those who have concerns about the future based on the last 18 months of league form, are fair & justified. I am just saying you can’t sack him.

    The time to naturally part ways is next summer, if he hasn’t done enough to earn a new deal.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    edited June 2023
    At the end of the day last season in the PL was nothing but a big fat disappointment…
    Moyes IMO has been able to remain with the conference league trophy, but with what he had at his disposal and the end result in finishing just above the bottom 3 in the league was nothing short of shocking IMO…
    I hope this season he can make a difference in the EPL table & our position and not have a season of virtually looking over our shoulders for the majority of it..
    The football in general was dour, if you wanna disagree, then sorry you weren’t watching the same games as I did….
    Moyes, very well done for winning the conference league, it bought a lot of happiness to many, but I really hope we see an improvement in the league this coming season because last season was sometimes a hammer house horror production to watch….
  • LukerzLukerz
    I think we can all agree with that, but you still can’t sack a guy with his record for us.
  • jay_in_cptjay_in_cpt
    edited June 2023
    Lukerz said:

    I think we can all agree with that, but you still can’t sack a guy with his record for us.

    Agree, but I never said in that comment we should!!! But if we are in a similar situation come the time Christmas decorations go up, he should be history 👍🏻
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    Jay it’s easy to say what he had at his disposal etc etc but of the new signings three of them were injured for lengthy spells, one was bought as cover for Fabianski so he had for the most part, the same players as the previous year or so.
    They underperformed obviously but most of them had been playing continuously for about two years.
    Chelsea won the champions league two years ago and finished bottom half this season. Changing their manager every other week didn’t help them any.
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