Moyes In or Moyes Out

claretandbluesky

I don't think tonight is that significant regard the Moyes in or out debate as it's one game, but when you look at why we didn't win or compete in any given match you can sometimes pin point one factor and in my view Moyes was that factor tonight, he put out the wrong team to compete in this the match, and as a direct consequence we didn't even compete.

Clactonite

At the end of the season I’d say thank you and goodbye to Moyes but in his slight defence, whenever they show him on the camera during the games, he seems to be telling the players to push up the pitch and be more aggressive, they just don’t seem to listen or unable to.

MIAHammer

I’m firmly in the “Moyes out” camp but not in the “Moyes out now” camp.
We’re not going down this season, so let him see out the season. o need for a knee jerk reaction. We’ve got 4 months to look for and find a replacement. Immediately after his last game, we say thank you for your service and bring in the new manager.
Now, if we have already identified his replacement and he is available now, then that changes things. Let’s bring him in now so that he has some extra time with the squad to see who has to move on and who’s part of next seasons plans.

BubblesNeverDies

Clactonite said:

At the end of the season I’d say thank you and goodbye to Moyes but in his slight defence, whenever they show him on the camera during the games, he seems to be telling the players to push up the pitch and be more aggressive, they just don’t seem to listen or unable to.

Which is down to team selection.

EXETERHAMMER

Just when I thought I was securely in the 'Moyes In' camp, he goes and does something as dumb as last night. I hope he redeems himself.

Lukerz

It’s frustrating because for the last few weeks he’s been referring to the fact we’re in the 1/4 finals of the league cup when asked about how well we’ve done. Just odd to then go and make several changes. I thought we were beyond those days. We tended to do it when we were prioritising survival. I thought our mentality was different now.

Slacker

I think that changes were necessary last night.
These blokes are not machines and they have already played A LOT of games.It’s not as if he played a load of kids( see Allardyce), they were all international players (I think) last night. Liverpool did it. I’d love to see the same first choice team every week but it’s just not possible with the amount of games.
The reason we were mullered is we didn’t play well and Liverpool did.

mike

@Slacker I agree that you can't keep playing the same players every game but surely Moyes should have prioritised the game against Liverpool as being more important than the Wolves game?

Slacker

mike said:

@Slacker I agree that you can't keep playing the same players every game but surely Moyes should have prioritised the game against Liverpool as being more important than the Wolves game?

In years gone by you would’ve been right, rest players for league games so they’re ready for important cup games was what clubs did. Unfortunately the league has become the priority since the advent of the telly money and it’s absolutely vital to stay in the Premier League.
Not saying it’s right by any means, it’s just the way football is now I’m afraid.

alderz

mike said:

@Slacker I agree that you can't keep playing the same players every game but surely Moyes should have prioritised the game against Liverpool as being more important than the Wolves game?

If we'd got pasted by Wolves at home, I think people would be seriously calling for his head. Personally, I think we should have prioritised last night over the Man Utd game at the weekend, but I also think that - as MrsGrey said - managers get sacked based on their league performance, not on going out to one of the big boys in the cup that most people don't value, so I get it.

Yeoldhammer

His problem is that he never uses subs in any normal league games, so he has a Fornals / Ogbonna / Kehrer / Benrahma / Johnson / Cresswell etc who have had bare minutes to be match fit. I am honestly convinced that none of our second string 11 are actually match fit because of this. That is purely down to the manager. If he is that scared to rotate and sub people in, that he has that amount of lack of faith in those players to come on for 20 - 30 minutes to do a job or change the game he should just fill the bench with kids.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Yeoldhammer said:

His problem is that he never uses subs in any normal league games, so he has a Fornals / Ogbonna / Kehrer / Benrahma / Johnson / Cresswell etc who have had bare minutes to be match fit. I am honestly convinced that none of our second string 11 are actually match fit because of this. That is purely down to the manager. If he is that scared to rotate and sub people in, that he has that amount of lack of faith in those players to come on for 20 - 30 minutes to do a job or change the game he should just fill the bench with kids.

I think this is an interesting point about match fitness. We were always five yards off them last night and they were just breezing through us all game. I get they're better than us, but they also worked so much harder.

PrestonHammer

It doesn't matter who we bring in, I think we've reached our ceiling. It's been a good couple of years but we've had our fun.

Whitehorsehammer

Last night some players needed a rest and there was apparently some illness still around. I don't think that he had much choice other than to make changes. Soucek looked dead on his feet after fifteen minutes, I think he probably still had some virus but being tough he said I'm okay I can do it, but he couldn't. The main problem is our second string is not good enough. That may be partly down to lack of game time, but see what happens when they are put in. Our first eleven have got stronger, Paqueta, Kudus, JWP, Alvarez and Emerson finding very good form. You can't play the first eleven every game. What would any of us done, play the full first eleven even if not fit or chance a few of the second eleven?

MunichHammer

What became clear for me was that Benrahma needs upgrading. While Paqueta also makes mistakes he doesn't lose the ball as easily for their first and we would have had a little more punch in midfield. I thought we immediately got better once the change was made but by that time everything had already been lost.

alderz

Interesting article on the BBC
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67739722

claretandbluesky

I think you have the two sides expressed in that article.

One side is you are West ham and doing great for West Ham. To which the two positions are, but I want to be more than the West ham that you are basing that on, to which some will say but if you try that you may lose what you are getting at present and become once again what those expectations are based on.

It feels like a gamble as we could stay with Moyes and be less likely to be relegated or take the view now is the time to try and be more than our historical self. We have a new stadium, and have invested pretty well and have a good squad, and a great set of youngsters on our hands.

We could also be of the view that Moyes IS the manager to take us further than he has.


My view is Moyes deserves full respect for what he has achieved with the club, he should not be sacked this season. Regard the question of should we look elsewhere at the end of the season? I would say yes, but only if we have secured a manager that excites and can make that gamble one worth taking.

Lukerz

Noticeable results this season:

West Ham 3-1 Chelsea
Brighton 1-3 West Ham
West Han 3-1 Arsenal
Spurs 1-2 West Ham
West Ham 2-0 Man Utd

We’re 6th in the league, last 16 of the Europa & the FA Cup to come. Add that to the last 3 seasons, I will never call for his head.

If he leaves at the end of the season so be it, but it will be a shame.

Lukerz

To add, already murmurings on Twitter of Eddie Howe being under a little bit of pressure, having gone out of Europe, League Cup & seemingly quite far off the top four. You just become a victim of your own success. Doesn’t matter who you are or how well you do or how well your team plays football, a few disappointing results & pressure is on. To maintain consistency for any length of time outside the top 2/3 is incredibly hard. Howe is struggling to do it, Moyes managed to do it & went one better with a piece of silverware. Ask Newcastle fans whether they’d trade their 6 game group stage of the Champions League for the ECL trophy. See what they say.

claretandbluesky

They may get a chance if they remain where they are at present.

Bazshuayi

To be fair, Newcastle have had ridiculous injuries this season. Seems like as soon as some come back others take their place in the injury room. Ohh, and just to make it clear, I dont have any sympathy for the club. Just being real about it.

DJ Hammer

My goodness when I look at some of our results this season especially against Man Ure and Arsenal, I can’t believe that this is even up for debate. David Moyes is the perfect fit for West Ham.

claretandbluesky

I don't think there was ever a chance of him being out this season, the question is should they renew the contract. If he maintains this form I imagine it will be extended for a couple of years and rightly so.

I do think a lot of people felt his league performance last season was poor in results and performances and it got masked over by winning a cup he should really of won or at least got to the final of quite easily. So I think there was a valid question mark over his future.

What we can't argue with however is his performance in the league and Europa League this season. On the evidence so far he deserves to try and take us further still.

alderz

For me it sort of ebbs and flows a bit. I like Moyes, we have had unprecedented (for my lifetime at least) success in both our league finishes and in Europe under him. I feel that we would be risking an awful lot to change manager at the end of the season, and I’m very happy with us not doing that.

But, there are times when we play a brand of football that does not inspire or excite, and we sometimes look absolutely clueless on the pitch. I’m not expecting us to be Barcelona, but I do expect to see us play with a bit of tempo and try to do the things we’re good at.

Right now, we’re playing a style that really suits us, and that I personally really enjoy watching. But that wasn’t the case last season, and it wasn’t the case for the early parts of this one. If we can keep playing the way we are - and I’m not talking about winning big games all the time, even when we lose I want to see us trying to play with direct counter attacking, running with the ball, giving it everything - then I’d love him to sign a new contract.

PrestonHammer

It's being reported that Moyes is set to sign a 2 and half year contract extension.

steve

Well guess that will put that to bed then ,Untill of course oh never mind

MunichHammer

PrestonHammer said:

It's being reported that Moyes is set to sign a 2 and half year contract extension.

But fidn't he say himself that Sullivan wamted to sit down at the end of January?

steve

Hope Sullivan sits down before then.After all he 's not that young anymore

Bazshuayi

Obviously I am very happy with the result yesterday (and the other notable ones).

However, looking at it, we defended for our lives for the vast majoity of the game (expected of course vs Arsenal away) and had to also hope that they had an off day finishing wise. This would obviously be the case for most teams so its not like I think its just applying to us.

Perhaps we are more suited to beating the better teams as they arent afraid to attack.

I am also more than happy with where we find ourselves in the league (but I havent forgot what happened at Anfield).

Whatever I say or see, I still cant help but have no affinity with Moyes or his lack of versatility etc. So I am Moyes out still (and hoping the contract extension is fake news)

chicagohammer

Whilst being very pleased indeed with the position we find ourselves in this season, I still would favor a change at the end of this season and not look to renew his contract.

DM would be going out with his head held high and a record to be proud of, I would like to think there might still be a role for him at the club but I believe that the time is right for him to stand aside - in my perfect world he voluntarily suggests a change in role rather than being pushed.

He seems to have a determined view life on the pitch which has proven to be effective both for us and his time at Everton, but it is perhaps no surprise that he fell short at Man U as their expectations are very different and he clearly did not have the quality of playing staff at Sunderland to make it happen there.

I feel that if he is rewarded with another term, we can certainly expect no change in playing style, DM does what it says on the can, we may be reasonably successful in maintaining league position etc, but I think he has taken us as far as he can.

At the end of the day, if they renew his contract I will of course support him but I feel that the board would be kicking the aforementioned can down the road as he is not getting any younger and we will have to face change sometime.

Additionally, at least IMO, the team is likely to experience a significant churn in headcount so now seems as good a time as ever.

thoughts on a postcard