Moyes In or Moyes Out

jay_in_cpt

Thorn, IMO even with those injuries, he should have got more out of them ….
We massively under achieved in the league, simple as that for me….No excuses, and if it’s the same this season I expect him to be gone by Christmas ( I of course want him to turn things around this season and we are not worrying for the majority of it are we going to stay up or not, and yeh, some will say they were never worried, but in reality, it was far closer than anyone would have liked )…

The conference league was fun, albeit against on average championship level teams for the most 👍🏻

thornburyiron

I find it odd that the ECL is considered to be made up of average championship teams but qualification for it is generally one league place lower than for the Europa and could be two lower than for the Champions league.
We got Europa for 6th and conference for 7th. Similar in other leagues

jay_in_cpt

thornburyiron said:

I find it odd that the ECL is considered to be made up of average championship teams but qualification for it is generally one league place lower than for the Europa and could be two lower than for the Champions league.
We got Europa for 6th and conference for 7th. Similar in other leagues

But surely you can agree that virtually every other league is of a completely inferior standard to the EPL…

buffybegood

thornburyiron said:

I find it odd that the ECL is considered to be made up of average championship teams but qualification for it is generally one league place lower than for the Europa and could be two lower than for the Champions league.
We got Europa for 6th and conference for 7th. Similar in other leagues

That's only really relevant in a few leagues, probably in England, Spain, Italy, Germany and, at a push, France. Beyond that there just isn't the strength in depth in European leagues, so even if qualification for the ECL was coming 3rd or 4th in their respective league, the quality drop off compared to 7th in the PL is often huge.

AEK Larnica, for example, were actually in the Europa League this season after finishing 2nd in their league in 2021/2, but finished 3rd in their group and dropped down to the ECL. It just shows that it's often not the case that entry into one of UEFA's competitions means the clubs are all of a similar standard; few could argue, after the 2021/2 season, that, on merit, we should be in a higher competition (7th in PL > 2nd in Cypriot League) but that's not how qualification works. This season they finished 3rd in their league, and will be in the ECL next season; I fully expect Villa to win comfortably should they face each other.

Personally I'd be surprised if teams from the top 5 leagues (so only 5 clubs out of 60 that were originally included in the competition before being whittled down to 32 for the group stages, plus maybe one or two teams dropping down from the Europa League) don't win at least 8 or 9 of the first 10 runnings of the ECL.

thornburyiron

You can say that about all the European competitions, the Euros and the World Cup but it’s the better countries that get to the latter stages and eventually win them. That’s what we did so to say they’re championship level at best is wrong

IronHerb

I think it all changes next year when the CL is revamped.

alderz

thornburyiron said:

You can say that about all the European competitions, the Euros and the World Cup but it’s the better countries that get to the latter stages and eventually win them. That’s what we did so to say they’re championship level at best is wrong

For me, the quality of sides in the UECL, UEL and UCL outside of the top handful of leagues is pretty much the same. Ok, we played Larnaca. Sheriff Tiraspol beat Real Madrid. If we had lost to them people would say they were Championship quality at best.

At the end of the day, all you can do is win the games in front of you, and we won 14 of our 15 games and drew the other. Regardless of the standard of opposition, that is an incredible record.

MrsGrey

Invincibles, innit.

Lukerz

At what point is Moyes considered a West Ham managerial ‘legend’?

MunichHammer

When he has managed Millwall to successive relegations I'd presume 😉

I think legend is a difficult title to give but if we continue as we have this year he could be on a good path. Possibly a fourth consecutive European participation, a decent run in Europe. That would be nice

IronHerb

Lukerz said:

At what point is Moyes considered a West Ham managerial ‘legend’?

Another 5 years in charge.

alderz

Lukerz said:

At what point is Moyes considered a West Ham managerial ‘legend’?

Depends on how you define legend. I think that most people considered legends at the club are almost synonymous with West Ham - your Bonds’, you Brooking’s, you Carr’s, etc. I don’t think Moyes is that, but if you’re going by just success, he’s already one.

buffybegood

Lukerz said:

At what point is Moyes considered a West Ham managerial ‘legend’?

He's got a long way to go still imo.

claretandbluesky

I think there is more to legend than performances. I don't say this a negative on him but I don't think in my opinion he has any emotional connection to us as a club. I think he is a Celtic fan and I think if he retired tomorrow he would be remembered as the Everton manager more than ourselves, or any of his other roles as he was there for 11 years.

I think it's interesting how we remember people, for me I see John Lyall and Ron Greenwood as Legends, but I always think of Harry Redknapp as West Ham rather than Pompey or Spurs, even if not a legend. I think Moyes would have to be around longer than his 11 years at Everton to be thought of as West ham.

I very much like him as a man and think he has done a really good job. I think the trophy aside, as I don't think the achievement matched the euphoria it produced in reality, and the qualifying through the Premiership was much more of an achievement than the tournament itself as we played very few competitive matches, but his real achievement for me is that in the time he has been here I don't think I have ever known a period in which the team is not wholly together and giving its best. He really has managed the team from that standpoint brilliantly and it's not an easy task as you can see at other clubs.

nychammer66

Lukerz said:

At what point is Moyes considered a West Ham managerial ‘legend’?

If he dies in office 😬

EXETERHAMMER

I do think you probably have to be a fan or be emotionally attached to the club as well as manager.

The same goes with players e.g. Nobes and PDC.

steve

Anyone want to say Moyes out

BubblesNeverDies

steve said:

Anyone want to say Moyes out

Slacker has said it on the match thread.😉

mike

steve said:

Anyone want to say Moyes out

Yeah i do.In fact i've been saying it all season.
We've been playing this low block boring football all season and we have been getting away with it until now.
We have got some good players but i don't think Moyes is getting the best out of them so for me i think we need someone new in to freshen it up.
At the moment i'm feeling raw after that 5-0 defeat.

Bazshuayi

Moyes out for me too. Not because we lost a game. I am with Mikes point of view and have been of that mindset for a long time. We do have plenty of good players but (for example someone like Silva who we came up against today) I believe we need a more progressive manager. Is Potter still without a club?

I do feel that we got stuffed today because of the exersions of the Thursday Spurs game. So, again, its not a kneejerk reaction to today. Newcastle have been carrying the same players for weeks and that's got them stuffed by Everton and Spurs in a short space of time. So I get that tiredness and proximity of games can be a big factor. We dont rotate too much and I dont think players like Fornals are trusted anymore or Cornet (both could do with more minutes and give our better players 20+ minutes of rest in games periodically like most other teams do sub wise)

If someone said to me you can beat Spurs away 2-1 but lose 5-0 to Fulham... I'd take it every day of the week. I'd accept more than that too.

We are pretty safe points wise but I doubt we can challenge for Europe league wise nor will we be in trouble. Basically a good chunk of the season to experiment systems (perhaps with a new manager and let Moyes go early)

steve

I know there was a few lets say jokes about Moyes having lost the dressing room .But there was something really missing today .Just hope that perhaps the bug going around made one or two players not up to 100 % today and that there's nothing more going on .Guess the next couple of games will tell us .

steve

Moyes seemed to be sitting around more then standing on the touchline .Whatever that ment

Lukerz

3 points off the top 6.
Been in our best bit of form since September.
Top of Europa League group.
Quarter finals of the League Cup.
All having sold our best player in the summer.

Silverware in June.
3 seasons of European football.

There are bad things about us, plus things to improve.

If we’re Moyes out then good luck the next manager…

alderz

I’m the same as I’ve been for a long while on this. Based on the results he’s gotten, you simply cannot sack the man, and I wouldn’t want us to. That said, I find us boring to watch, and I won’t be particularly disappointed to see him go when he does.

chicagohammer

I am also in the same boat that I was last year, I would like to see a more progressive manager with fresh ideas.

I understand that Potter is still available which is both interesting and slightly surprising…….either way, DMs record is beyond reproach, one he can be justifiably proud of and the European trophy can be viewed as a fitting finale but imo, his tactics are too predictable and his race is run.

claretandbluesky

alderz said:

I’m the same as I’ve been for a long while on this. Based on the results he’s gotten, you simply cannot sack the man, and I wouldn’t want us to. That said, I find us boring to watch, and I won’t be particularly disappointed to see him go when he does.

I think I tend agree, he has brought to this club what so many successive managers failed to. I would find appealing the idea of bringing in the next manager in under him to smooth a transition for a year.

If I look at the Moyes positives, for me it's that he has consistently produced a team that gives its all, in winning and losing, and has a team spirit that has never collapsed once as far as I can see.

I always feel during a season he will get more right than wrong and slowly acquire the points we need.

I also like him as a person and I feel he represents us well.

On the negatives I think he is limited and has struggled make us anything more than a counter attacking team in all this time.

I feel he is too defensive and does not allow the team to express itself as it could, so often we look really good when chasing a game as we need to attack, yet his defensive instincts keeps us from getting at teams. He is almost the anti-spurs at present, who want to go at teams whatever the score or stage of the match.

So a bit like Alderz, I am a Moyes in but when it's time for him to go I will look forward to a change. I won't be shocked however if we struggle and do have a sense of regret that the stability he brings is lacking.

Slacker

There’s no way they can sack him imo, for the reasons stated above.
His contract is up at the end of the season and that would be the perfect opportunity to make him general manager( if he wants it) and bring in a new face.
That man has done so much for this club he deserves respect.

buffybegood

alderz said:

I’m the same as I’ve been for a long while on this. Based on the results he’s gotten, you simply cannot sack the man, and I wouldn’t want us to. That said, I find us boring to watch, and I won’t be particularly disappointed to see him go when he does.

I wouldn't say it's right to sack him, but, much like when Allardyce left, I think his contract shouldn't be renewed in the summer. Our current league position really flatters our performances this season, and I also feel that Moyes has been neglectful in his managing of the squad with next to no thought about the long term future of the club.

There's a huge rebuilding project necessary over the next two transfer windows, mainly as a result of kicking cans down the road, but also from the way he chooses to manage players; the lack of game time a lot of our squad has had means they're not really match fit on the rare occasions they're called into action, so they can't show their best, so they get even less game time and so on. It's a vicious circle.

It's going to be really tough for a new manager to come in given the number of gaps there are likely to be in the squad come the summer, but I hope one does come in and is given time to try and sort out what could well be a messy situation left behind by Moyes.

Slacker

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

I’m the same as I’ve been for a long while on this. Based on the results he’s gotten, you simply cannot sack the man, and I wouldn’t want us to. That said, I find us boring to watch, and I won’t be particularly disappointed to see him go when he does.

I wouldn't say it's right to sack him, but, much like when Allardyce left, I think his contract shouldn't be renewed in the summer. Our current league position really flatters our performances this season, and I also feel that Moyes has been neglectful in his managing of the squad with next to no thought about the long term future of the club.

There's a huge rebuilding project necessary over the next two transfer windows, mainly as a result of kicking cans down the road, but also from the way he chooses to manage players; the lack of game time a lot of our squad has had means they're not really match fit on the rare occasions they're called into action, so they can't show their best, so they get even less game time and so on. It's a vicious circle.

It's going to be really tough for a new manager to come in given the number of gaps there are likely to be in the squad come the summer, but I hope one does come in and is given time to try and sort out what could well be a messy situation left behind by Moyes.

Wish we had a “strongly disagree “ option.

buffybegood

Slacker said:

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

I’m the same as I’ve been for a long while on this. Based on the results he’s gotten, you simply cannot sack the man, and I wouldn’t want us to. That said, I find us boring to watch, and I won’t be particularly disappointed to see him go when he does.

I wouldn't say it's right to sack him, but, much like when Allardyce left, I think his contract shouldn't be renewed in the summer. Our current league position really flatters our performances this season, and I also feel that Moyes has been neglectful in his managing of the squad with next to no thought about the long term future of the club.

There's a huge rebuilding project necessary over the next two transfer windows, mainly as a result of kicking cans down the road, but also from the way he chooses to manage players; the lack of game time a lot of our squad has had means they're not really match fit on the rare occasions they're called into action, so they can't show their best, so they get even less game time and so on. It's a vicious circle.

It's going to be really tough for a new manager to come in given the number of gaps there are likely to be in the squad come the summer, but I hope one does come in and is given time to try and sort out what could well be a messy situation left behind by Moyes.

Wish we had a “strongly disagree “ option.

Which part do you strongly disagree with?

Do you think our performances this season have largely been good?

Do you think we don't need a lot of work to do on the squad between now and September?

Do you think players have generally progressed or regressed under Moyes?