Moyes In or Moyes Out

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  • Never ment to cause any offence ,just thought I may had missed something from scamacca About wanting to leave
  • edited May 2023
    For starters this is transfer news rather than speculation on whether Moyes is going to be our manager next season so its the wrong thread

    Would it be at all possible for us to stick to the subject of the thread rather than everything being everywhere?

    As for the links, well...

    hammers.news is possibly the worst source of news available, a pair of muppets in Aylesbury that simply cut and paste stories from other sources without any original input.

    In this case they have decided that a report by siamolaroma.it from 12 May of Scamacca in the stands for Roma's home game against Bayer Leverkusen is a sign that he wants to leave. Except he has gone back to Italy for an operation, he was born in Rome and was a Roma youth team player 2012-15. Utter rubbish

    The onefootball.com article doesn't even offer any evidence for Scammaca wanting to leave, just claims that as he changing his agent in February that is a sign that he wants to move. More rubbish

    football-italia.net quotes Calciomercato for the Juventus claim

    sempreinter.com and footballtoday.com both cite Gazzetta dello Sport as their source

    At no point is Scamacca or his agent even quoted as saying he want to leave

    It's pure speculation with no evidence

    I think Steve and Preston are owed an apology
  • edited May 2023
    Sorry, Steve and Preston. I guess the pressure and all of the challenges got too much for me.
  • I've rewritten my post to avoid any controversy:

    "At the beginning of this season, I hoped to myself that we wouldn't be relegated, as we had a European cup to distract us, and Moyes brought in a rake of new first-team players (Paquetá, Kehrer, Scamacca, Aguerd, Cornet, Emerson), which meant that over half of the team would not know how the rest played, and would take time to find their feet. In my opinion, this was compounded by injuries -we were unfortunate not just in the severity of some of them, but especially in the timing (imagine how much better Cornet would be playing in the team if he wasn't out for so long; imagine how much better the defence would be if Moyes had had a constant back four for a few months; imagine Scamacca if he had learned to play off a Paquetá growing in confidence).
    Possibly one could argue Moyes was slow to introduce the new players to the squad, and that three minutes per game doesn't really help a new player settle in to the team, but we have, in my opinion, one of the worst sets of fans for impatience, and I can imagine wanting to shelter your club record signing from boos and whistles should you have a nightmare opening game.
    I could see what Moyes was planning, though. We all agree the last three months have seen a very interesting team take shape. I for one would like to see what Moyes has had planned of this squad. Scamacca is definitely going to stay at West Ham -nothing points to any other case!
    I'd like to see who Moyes brings in to replace Rice and play up front with Scamacca who will definitely be there, as there is no evidence to the contrary, and give him another season."
  • My problem is that I do not think he has any real intention of “playing anyone up front with Scamacca” or anybody else for that matter.

    If he did, then surely we would have seen evidence of that by now
  • Sorry, Steve and Preston. I guess the pressure and all of the challenges got too much for me.

    No worries buddy.
  • steve said:

    Who said Scamacca does not want to stick around ,I for one have not seen any quote from him to that effect

    But he wouldn't say as much, would he. He's a professional lad and is, for now, 100% committed (and contracted) to West Ham. He's not daft enough, or badly advised enough, to say he's leaving until at least the season is over.

    But I think it's probably a fair assumption that he is going to move on in the summer.
  • I cant recall what thread it was on (Antonio talking about Scamacca not being a Moyes striker) but whether it was ill advised or not, I think Antonio is calling it how he sees it rather than knocking Scamacca. He seems like a guy who isn't shy to voice his opinion. Perhaps he thinks also that if Scam was fit that we'd have not got the wins we needed and that he was an integral part of us avoiding relegation with his scrap style?

    For me, one of the issues is the fact Antonio thinks you have to feed off scraps to be in Moyes team. That's a result of how we set up. His too defensive (and not too flexible) mindset/style means the forwards are starved and hope for a scrap or two on the break.

    I am presuming the want to play that often mentioned more possession game brought Scamacca to West Ham. That desire to play with the ball more is either abandoned or temporarily so?

    Reverting back to how we used to play was a big sign that it wasn't working quickly enough and the hope in reverting was that we'd suddenly not get found out and actually be better form and skill wise in countering.

    We got away with a mostly poor season... I would like Moyes to go but if he doesn't I do wonder what tactical plan he will adopt next season...

    The newer players would have had that much more time. People like Cornet will be fit. Kehrer, Aguerd and co will have had Premier experience.

    Will he change shape?

    Will he have more than one shape (with Ings, Cornet in mind)

    Will he change the style again?

    Will he be able to address a Riceless midfield?

  • Everyone seems to keep blaming Moyes and state categorically that he is deploying this or that tactic but he is one of the first to say that the forwards and to some extent the midfield are not doing what he wants them to do.
    Maybe with Antonio it has to be scraps because of the type of player he is, he’s no footballer, has no footballing brain but is more or less just an athlete.
  • I wonder if Lionel Scaloni would be interested in the job, he's knows about West Ham after all. ;)
  • It may all come down to who our new sporting director is. There’s a few media reports that Noble is leaving the job.
  • It may all come down to who our new sporting director is. There’s a few media reports that Noble is leaving the job.

    I think he is staying on as Sporting Director but relinquishing, if he ever had it, the Director of Football role.
  • It all seems a bit messy to me….
    Things again seem a little disorganised from the outset, but hey that’s all we have to go on so who knows….
  • Seems to be some noise that Celtic might be in for Moyes if Postecoglou moves on.

    Feels a bit too obvious, but can see the appeal for both parties.

    But as with Rice, you'd want a decision to be made soon so either Moyes or the next guy can concentrate on pre-season.
  • Seems to be some noise that Celtic might be in for Moyes if Postecoglou moves on.

    Feels a bit too obvious, but can see the appeal for both parties.

    But as with Rice, you'd want a decision to be made soon so either Moyes or the next guy can concentrate on pre-season.

    Leaving West Ham for Celtic is a step down.

    We ate in rhe Premier League with serious competition

    Celtic are a big fish in a tiny pond with one other big fish and a load of minnows
  • Seems to be some noise that Celtic might be in for Moyes if Postecoglou moves on.

    Feels a bit too obvious, but can see the appeal for both parties.

    But as with Rice, you'd want a decision to be made soon so either Moyes or the next guy can concentrate on pre-season.

    Leaving West Ham for Celtic is a step down.

    We ate in rhe Premier League with serious competition

    Celtic are a big fish in a tiny pond with one other big fish and a load of minnows
    To some people, trophies is trophies is trophies.
  • And maybe he's keen to be in Scotland for one reason or another.
  • edited June 2023

    Seems to be some noise that Celtic might be in for Moyes if Postecoglou moves on.

    Feels a bit too obvious, but can see the appeal for both parties.

    But as with Rice, you'd want a decision to be made soon so either Moyes or the next guy can concentrate on pre-season.

    Leaving West Ham for Celtic is a step down.

    We ate in rhe Premier League with serious competition

    Celtic are a big fish in a tiny pond with one other big fish and a load of minnows
    Moyes is Glaswegian and played for Celtic. Every chance it might actually be his dream job, in which case it wouldn't be a step down in his eyes.

    Plus the idea of winning a few bits of silverware as he approaches retirement might be appealing to a manager that has won just one trophy in a 25 year career.
  • Anybody could manage Celtic and win trophies in a two horse race so maybe he wouldn’t see it as a challenge or achievement.
  • I’ve read more of what Antonio said in his podcast and it was a bit contradictory. His criticism of Scamacca and the bit about how he doesn’t fit into Moyes way of playing and how he wants them to fight for scraps doesn’t match with some of his earlier comments in the same podcast.
    He said the reason our league form was poor was because Moyes wanted us to play more progressively and be more of a possession based team and by November December time they realised it wasn’t working and went back to the previous way.
    Could his comments be more down to the fact that he himself doesn’t suit a more possession based footballing approach and his place in the side was threatened.
    The new approach wasn’t helped by the fact that most of the players brought in to play that way became injured or ill very early on.
    I don’t think he’s done himself any favours and is in danger of alienating himself from the squad.
  • edited June 2023
    I watched the entire show and he does also say Scamacca is quality. I think he’s just answered a question unfiltered.

    The comments about Scamacca is when the podcast guys say Scamacca came up in another episode as one of the worst signings of the season - Antonio is saying he’s a really good player but hasn’t suited our style.

    Later on they ask him why our season hasn’t been good. Antonio says that after being so close to Top 4 for two season, Moyes wants to change our style and play like a top 4 side and so that’s why he goes out and buys players like Paqueta and Scamacca who he hopes can play through teams in the final third. They originally want to see it through even though they can see it’s not working until it gets to a point when we’re in danger and so we go back to basics.

    Personally, I still find it baffling to hear that we did try to change our style to something more possession based. I see that we bought the players for it and I heard people say it but I can’t think of a single sign that we actually tried to do it on the pitch. We couldn’t even get possession, let alone keep it most of the time.
  • Anybody could manage Celtic and win trophies in a two horse race so maybe he wouldn’t see it as a challenge or achievement.

    David Moyes might want to manage in the Champions League which he is more likely to do at Celtic than with us.
  • Personally, I still find it baffling to hear that we did try to change our style to something more possession based. I see that we bought the players for it and I heard people say it but I can’t think of a single sign that we actually tried to do it on the pitch. We couldn’t even get possession, let alone keep it most of the time.

    Yeah, I didn't see any signs of it at all. It didn’t help that we had a really underwhelming pre-season where the new signings hardly featured, nor do I think it was a particularly good idea to try to completely change your style of play whilst introducing eight new players to the squad.
  • Personally, I still find it baffling to hear that we did try to change our style to something more possession based. I see that we bought the players for it and I heard people say it but I can’t think of a single sign that we actually tried to do it on the pitch. We couldn’t even get possession, let alone keep it most of the time.

    Probably because, for the most part, we were trying to do it with the same players who had been best suited to playing with 35% possession for the previous 2 seasons.

  • I agree with him on Scammacca and feel he is real quality and will eclipse what Haller went onto once he leaves. The problem is very few attackers can play alone up front and our very best spell was with Lingard, who just happened to fit perfectly in that brief period he arrived. A number 10 that can finish and create. I think Paquetta looks like he should easily be that, but never quite is and plays a little deeper. I think Moyes was also of this view and why he bought Vlasic but he didn't have what Lingard had.

    I think we now look to play Scammaca in a two or find another Antonio type and a Lingard type. That would be my summer business regard attack.
  • edited June 2023
    I'm assuming Lingard will soon be available on a free ;-D
  • Bazshuayi said:

    I'm assuming Lingard will soon be available on a free ;-D

    Wash your mouth out.
  • I can do this. But will Moyes resist him... :)
  • David Moyes might want to manage in the Champions League which he is more likely to do at Celtic than with us.

    This season was the first time Celtic got to the Champions League Group Stage since 2017, they usually get knocked out in the qualifying rounds and end up in the Europa League
    MrsGrey said:

    And maybe he's keen to be in Scotland for one reason or another.

    His wife lives in Lancashire so moving to Celtic wouldn't be much closer to home
  • edited June 2023
    As usual ASLEF, you let pesky facts get in the way.
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