Moyes In or Moyes Out

claretandbluesky

It will be interesting to see how Leicester do now as they are the club that most mirror ourselves in as much as a good squad and a manager who has done well by them in since taking the job.

This is a statement which could easily have been made from our board had we lost today.

But chairman Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha said performances and results this season had been "below our shared expectations".

In a statement, he added: "It had been our belief that continuity and stability would be key to correcting our course, particularly given our previous achievements under Brendan's management.

"Regrettably, the desired improvement has not been forthcoming and, with 10 games of the season remaining, the board is compelled to take alternative action to protect our Premier League status.

"The task ahead of us in our final 10 games is clear. We now need to come together - fans, players and staff - and show the poise, quality and fight to secure our position as a Premier League club."

Dodger58

Potter gone now too

Bazshuayi

We have a big enough squad to do both things. Hardly any injuries too so no need to prioritize as we can rest plenty of players and still put internationals up in Europe.

Now the big question is... Do we get in touch with both Graham Potter and Brendan Rodgers? For next season.

Dodger58

I think we should be talking to both. But would not expect either to join us if we fail to stay in the Premier League. Rogers may also feel it is a case of stepping out of the pan into the fire.

But neither should be brought in before the end of the season - it is up to Moyes and the players now - with as much support as we can muster.

alderz

Graham Potter is my ideal West Ham manager, and has been for a while. I’d love him in charge at some point. But I also think that Moyes will keep us up and should then be given time to make it work next season.

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

Graham Potter is my ideal West Ham manager, and has been for a while. I’d love him in charge at some point. But I also think that Moyes will keep us up and should then be given time to make it work next season.

I think Moyes has a fundamental problem now. His success at West Ham has largely been built on counter-attacking football, but even by his own admission he'd failed this season to transition into a different type of team. He's had enough windows now to build his own squad, and has been adamant that he approves all of our new signings, so this failure is, IMO, on him.

The board gave him a record amount of money to spend and it's resulted in a very poor season, both in terms of results and performances. Will the board back him again in the summer to try to get the players necessary to try to make the possession-based game work, or do they keep him and allow him to revert to the counter-attacking game that opposition manager's worked out a season-and-a-half ago?

Moyes' judgement in the transfer market will come under increased scrutiny. Areola has been dropped at the first opportunity, Paqueta was brought in for goals and assists and has managed just five across the competitions this season, Scamacca is now effectively third choice striker and doesn't look to suit Moyes' tactics (see Haller), Downes can't displace a struggling Soucek and Ings has looked frustratingly isolated in most games he's played.

The jury is still out on Cornet, so Aguerd and, at a push, Emerson, look to be the only successful bits of business we've done across the two windows.

Add to that our league position and mood of the fans (more reported boos yesterday?), and I'm struggling to see how the board could justify keeping him on, even if we stay up.

Hamstew

alderz said:

Graham Potter is my ideal West Ham manager, and has been for a while. I’d love him in charge at some point. But I also think that Moyes will keep us up and should then be given time to make it work next season.

Potter won't hang around next season waiting for us to potentially sack Moyes. If we want him we'd have to go for him straight away imo.

Lukerz

We stay up & win the ECL it’s the most successful season we’ve had in over 40 years.

He doesn’t go.

alderz

I think you’re right, Ham, but this season could end with safety and a European trophy. I think it’s hard to sack him after that and two very successful seasons prior to that.

Hamstew

Yeah I know what you're saying. Its a weird one as I just think we need a change. We are ultimately very boring and personally I have lost any appetite to go and watch them.

Lukerz

Not sold on Potter. Think Brighton are a better side since he left. Find a lot of his football very safe & with no substance, albeit pleasing to watch.

OutcastLondoner

It's not even the counter-attacking football for me. Moyes had pretty much every player performing at a higher level when football resumed after the lockdown. I think that was his real achievement but right now, most are performing below their normal level. If he can't recreate that and can't implement that counter-attacking football, then I'm not sure what he can bring next season.

thornburyiron

OCS I fail to see how Pacqueta and Scamacca are not considered possession based players. Pacqueta is a Brazilian international regular whose very concept of football is control of the ball. Unfortunately this season when playing he’s had to spend more time winning back possession because use someone has lost it. Scamacca is an Italian international whose control of the ball is better than any of our other forwards but suffers because we can’t seem to get the ball to him properly.
Cornet we have no idea about as he’s missed most of this season.
Our main problem this season has been that nobody has seemed to have the ability to hit the wall of an aircraft hangar from inside even though we’ve had one of the highest attempt totals.
Someone needs to check if we actually use goals in training or if we do exactly what size they are because they can’t be 24x8 ft.

Lukerz

One issue is that Dawson, Antonio, Fornals, Cresswell, Lanzini & Coufal were all in our best 11 last season. Even the year before.

These have been replaced by Kehrer, Emerson, Aguerd, Paqueta, Benrahma & Scamacca/Ings. That has caused a massive change in style & those players haven’t delivered regularly. Benrahma’s stats are poor for his game time, Aguerd has been injured, Emerson only recently into the team & the rest have been average at best.

The ‘old guard’ have also not produced when they get the opportunity. We also have to remember that Bowen carried us a lot last season. Was it something like 18 goal contributions? So Antonio started us off on fire, fell away, Bowen ended the season on fire, keeping us just about hanging around 7th. Both players have not been at those levels at all this season. This was all backed up by Rice, who I think has cut a frustrated figure this year & has also had to adjust as captain.

Then you consider the loss of Masuaku, Fredericks, Diop, Martin, Dawson, Yarmolenko & Noble - that’s over 50 seasons of club service between them.

Then you throw in the ECL commitments (Thursday-Sunday) - it’s not been easy.

Fortuneseeker

Lukerz said:

We stay up & win the ECL it’s the most successful season we’ve had in over 40 years.

He doesn’t go.

Why?

We should be winning the ECL with our squad & with the same group of players we shouldn't be having to try to stave off relegation. Problem is David Moyes doesn't name a line up which gets the best 11 players on the pitch at the same time. Looking forward to the time when Scamacca is up top with Ings, I know I might be waiting a long time!

alderz

Getting the best XI players on the pitch is a bit of an old way of thinking about tactics though. There needs to be balance, just look at the classic England midfield of Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes and Beckham. No balance whatsoever, despite obviously being the best midfielders.

Ultimately, I don’t think he will go anywhere. I also think that he deserves the chance to continue. I personally value loyalty in football and think it’s one of the traits we most lack in the game these days. The flip side is that I find us very dull to watch, and would like to see us play a better style.

Lukerz

He’s not perfect, but a Europa League semi final & a Europa Conference League 1/4 final, two consecutive top 7 finishes…

If we win the ECL that’s the Europa League next year too, a trophy & given we only qualified for the ECL last year, that’s an improved outcome this season (not saying we are going to win the ECL).

Of course, if we go down he goes & we reset. That’s always what clubs do. But if we stay up I still feel getting rid of him would be harsh, especially as we also did it a few years ago after he kept us up.

I don’t believe in ‘we should be winning a trophy’. We’ve won nothing in 43 years. There’s no ‘should be’.

Fortuneseeker

@Lukerz, There is a difference between "should" & "will".

alderz

Lukerz said:

I don’t believe in ‘we should be winning a trophy’. We’ve won nothing in 43 years. There’s no ‘should be’.

claretandbluesky

I wouldn't fancy Moyes to do better next year than this without Declan Rice in his side.

I think it's time for a change. I think should we find ourselves in our current position at this stage next season we will feel very silly for not acting in the summer.

buffybegood

I think if Potter were still available and willing to come here he'd be worth going for.

BerlinHammer

I would like Potter. Although he does worry me a bit, when he plays arguably the best rb / rwb in the league, in a back 3

ASLEFshrugged

BerlinHammer said:

I would like Potter. Although he does worry me a bit, when he plays arguably the best rb / rwb in the league, in a back 3

Something the MotD crew were confused by

Okay Silva, Fofana and Azpilicueta were unavailable but you have to wonder just how bad Chabolah and Badiashile are that he plays a back back three of James, Koulibaly and Cucarella

Whitehorsehammer

claretandbluesky said:

I wouldn't fancy Moyes to do better next year than this without Declan Rice in his side.

I think it's time for a change. I think should we find ourselves in our current position at this stage next season we will feel very silly for not acting in the summer.

Should we find ourselves in our current position at this stage next season having changed manager would we not feel silly for acting in the summer?

Lukerz

I don’t see a reason to change Moyes if we stay up. He has achieved loads in a short space of time. Yes, football could be better, but I’ve not seen aa consistent a level of reasonable football since I’ve been a fan. Even this season, whilst a little slow, we have moved the ball around & can put together decent patterns of play.

MunichHammer

And next season our new signings will have a full season under their belts and will be integrated. I am confident we will stay up and will have a better season next year.

Lukerz

We’ve lost 4 of our 15 games in 2023 (all away). We are improving. It’s just slow.

chicagohammer

IMO, We are displaying a very conservative, pedestrian, must not lose mentality which is paying off as we clearly cannot afford to lose and we are likely to survive specifically because of the approach.

I give DM credit as he is certainly dogged and determined in ensuring his vision prevails but I think we are a better team than that and fully capable of succeeding if the team were to be let off the leash a bit.

The approach is not to concede and hopefully nick one on a counter, the trouble is that when we do concede, I am not confident that the set up and mindset we currently have allows us to switch gear.

claretandbluesky

I think Moyes restrains the team and is a negative manager who was getting away with a counter attacking team. Partly why he didn't work at United as they were a team who had to attack games and break teams down. Moyes instincts are very anti that approach.

Ravel49

Having been sacked by Chelsea, Englishman Potter, 47, is a candidate to become the next West Ham boss with the club set to consider the future of current manager, Scot David Moyes, 59, in the summer. (Telegraph - subscription required)