I think someone beat you to that (July 15th). I think they'll be carefully monitoring it too as their same comment received no 'made me laugh' at all. Just sayin'
I think someone beat you to that (July 15th). I think they'll be carefully monitoring it too as their same comment received no 'made me laugh' at all. Just sayin'
Love that you searched back for the exact date 😂 👏🏻
I think someone beat you to that (July 15th). I think they'll be carefully monitoring it too as their same comment received no 'made me laugh' at all. Just sayin'
Love that you searched back for the exact date 😂 👏🏻
Not that I needed proof but the analyst in me forced the search
Ex is reporting that he's unlikely to join as Moyes isn't convinced he's worth the money, whilst Fab Romano is claiming Onana prefers a move to Everton anyway and they've matched our bid.
Could be some agent shenanigans going on, but as it stands, it's looking like this one isn't happening.
I've recently found a bunch of statistics and analysis websites, and I wanted to look at a player to see how interesting some of the content is, so I thought I'd look at Amadou Onana, seeing as he's the current rumour.
Starting with the classics, Whoscored tells us that his strengths are in Aerial Duels and Tackling, which I think we expect for a massive defensive midfielder, but also, perhaps surprisingly, it lists Through Balls as a strength.
That might suggest that he's a creative passer of the ball, but if you look at his scouting report from FBRef, you can see that's not really the case. He made 2.95 progressive passes per 90, which places him in the bottom 25% of midfielders across Europe's top five leagues. He also has a pass completion if 83.1%, which places him in the 50th percentile - so, bang average for pass completion.
He also isn't someone who runs with the ball well or often. Less than 1 dribble completed per game, only 56% of those dribbles successful, and he's in the lowest 30% for progressive carries and lowest 15% for carries into the final third. Compare that with Rice, and he is in the top 3% of progressive carrying distance, and top 7% for carrying into the final third.
Where he shines is as a defensive player - top 6% for tackles made, top 8% for tackles won, top 10% for stopping players dribble past him.
Sofascore has his strengths as tackling, ground duels and ball control. I won't post it here, but if you look at his heatmap on Sofascore, you'll see that he basically plays deep, and has most of his touches on the left hand side - which is where Declan Rice tends to be for us.
Finally, Understat looks at various expected goals and assists measures, and what we can see from his polygon is that he's not someone who creates chances, but he gets involved in the buildup of goals, seemingly because he is good at pressing and winning the ball in the opposition half, which leads to turnovers and counter attacks.
So, based on all that, I think he is a really solid DM, but he's not a Declan Rice replacement, which is something I've seen to justify the price tag. It's possible he could become that, but he is basically a very good defender and header of the ball, he doesn't do a huge amount else, which, to me, suggests he would be brought in either to free up Rice and Soucek to push forward more, or to challenge Soucek. I think, long term, that a midfield pairing of Soucek and Onana would be a very poor midfield for a top side, as neither of them are players who want to get on the ball.
Is this the same Onana who said how much he wanted to join Liverpool the other week maybe he is getting he teams mixed upon Merseyside. Seems like a ploy to get better personal terms maybe
Is this the same Onana who said how much he wanted to join Liverpool the other week maybe he is getting he teams mixed upon Merseyside. Seems like a ploy to get better personal terms maybe
Which with that attitude, he will probably fail the Moyes morals test
Now being more widely covered in the tabloids that Everton have matched our offer for Onana & are offering higher wages than us, therefore hopeful of competing the deal.
Yeah I agree on Kostic, but I don’t think the club should be criticised for aiming for next level players (in their eyes), even if they are time consuming & end in failure. Kostic & Onana have been two players we have pursued for some time, both likely to end in failure, but we have a very good 11 & the level of player we need to sign to improve it is going to take us into ‘risk’ territory. There aren’t many midfielders that walk into our midfield straight off the bat. Hopefully we get some movement on Cornet today as that is somebody I am excited about us signing. He suits, very much, the way we play & our counter-attacking style.
Is this the same Onana who said how much he wanted to join Liverpool the other week maybe he is getting he teams mixed upon Merseyside. Seems like a ploy to get better personal terms maybe
The source would appear to be an interview from October 2021
What he actually said was that like Eden Hazard or Divock Origi who had also been at Lille he'd be happy to join Real Madrid or Liverpool
Hardly a shock that a young player would want to join two of the most successful clubs in Europe and now that Origi has gone to AC Milan I suppose he would be happy to join them. Or PSG. Or Bayern Munich
I'm not too bothered either for the same reasons. But it does feel like we've waisted a lot of time on players this window
This is the issue for me. Not so much that we're not signing Onana, but more that we made four significant bids for a player that only now are we deciding is too much money.
If we thought £35m was too much for a 20 year-old that may not start every week, why bid £35m for him? Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
I assume it’s not the fee, it’s the wages. Equally, a club can negotiate with a club, then sit down with management & decide ‘well if we get him we need to consider we may not be able to afford this other player’. There are many ways to do deals. Logically, you’d get the ok from the manager & then decide a maximum bid, but we haven’t necessarily done it in that order.
At 20 & with 8 starts, Onana should have a cap on what he can earn. I would argue it should be under £50k. He’s not proven. If Everton are happy to give him what he wants, fair enough.
But it’s not “wasting time” is it though? This transfer malarkey is not as simple as some may think, as has been said before there are many moving parts in these deals and an awful lot of money moving around.Some deals do go through apparently quickly but how does anybody know what had been going on behind the scenes to make it look that way and for how long?Downes being a good example.One of the biggest problems that clubs face must be keeping these things out of the media ( especially social media), we are not the only club who’ve been/ will be disappointed when moves don’t happen. It ain’t easy.
Only thing I would say, is when you agree a fee of over £30m for any player, the player/representatives have a strong negotiating position where they can say “well you think he’s worth £30m-£40m, so I assume you’re going to pay him accordingly”.
So having spent a lot of time trying to sign Onana does this now mean we will be looking at some alternatives? Can we now turn to concentrating on getting a new LB? Still think we are looking at another 3/4 players before the end of the month.
I'd like to think we already have alternatives in mind. If we're prepared to spend £35m on a midfielder, then it's evident Moyes believes it's a priority position for which we have a number of shortlisted players.
At 20 & with 8 starts, Onana should have a cap on what he can earn. I would argue it should be under £50k. He’s not proven. If Everton are happy to give him what he wants, fair enough.
8 starts? Last season he started 15 times (11 in 2022) and he got his first full Belgian cap in March against the Dutch
Clearly he's not going to push Soucek or Rice out of the starting XI but obviously Moyes thinks he has potential. I suppose its a question of whether Moyes thinks his potential is worth the cost or not.
I'm not bothered if we sign him or not, we've got Downes and possibly Coventry as back up for Soucek and Rice
I think it'll depend on which loans are available at the end of the window.
Assuming the Kostic money will go on Cornet, we presumably have the £35m Onana money to spend elsewhere (CM, LB, AM). So possibly two more permanent signings, but I still think that would leave us short, so I would expect at least one loan signing, if not two before the window's done.
Comments
Ex is reporting that he's unlikely to join as Moyes isn't convinced he's worth the money, whilst Fab Romano is claiming Onana prefers a move to Everton anyway and they've matched our bid.
Could be some agent shenanigans going on, but as it stands, it's looking like this one isn't happening.
Good luck with that.
Although that did come from the ITK that claimed Cucurella to Chelsea was done, a move that prompted Brighton to deny it, so there's that.
Starting with the classics, Whoscored tells us that his strengths are in Aerial Duels and Tackling, which I think we expect for a massive defensive midfielder, but also, perhaps surprisingly, it lists Through Balls as a strength.
That might suggest that he's a creative passer of the ball, but if you look at his scouting report from FBRef, you can see that's not really the case. He made 2.95 progressive passes per 90, which places him in the bottom 25% of midfielders across Europe's top five leagues. He also has a pass completion if 83.1%, which places him in the 50th percentile - so, bang average for pass completion.
He also isn't someone who runs with the ball well or often. Less than 1 dribble completed per game, only 56% of those dribbles successful, and he's in the lowest 30% for progressive carries and lowest 15% for carries into the final third. Compare that with Rice, and he is in the top 3% of progressive carrying distance, and top 7% for carrying into the final third.
Where he shines is as a defensive player - top 6% for tackles made, top 8% for tackles won, top 10% for stopping players dribble past him.
Sofascore has his strengths as tackling, ground duels and ball control. I won't post it here, but if you look at his heatmap on Sofascore, you'll see that he basically plays deep, and has most of his touches on the left hand side - which is where Declan Rice tends to be for us.
Finally, Understat looks at various expected goals and assists measures, and what we can see from his polygon is that he's not someone who creates chances, but he gets involved in the buildup of goals, seemingly because he is good at pressing and winning the ball in the opposition half, which leads to turnovers and counter attacks.
So, based on all that, I think he is a really solid DM, but he's not a Declan Rice replacement, which is something I've seen to justify the price tag. It's possible he could become that, but he is basically a very good defender and header of the ball, he doesn't do a huge amount else, which, to me, suggests he would be brought in either to free up Rice and Soucek to push forward more, or to challenge Soucek. I think, long term, that a midfield pairing of Soucek and Onana would be a very poor midfield for a top side, as neither of them are players who want to get on the ball.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/amadou-onana-everton-hope-to-beat-west-ham-to-signing-of-33m-midfielder-mqh269b77
I’m not too bothered. He’s 20 & I’ve never seen him play. Can’t be disappointed in a player I don’t know much about.
What he actually said was that like Eden Hazard or Divock Origi who had also been at Lille he'd be happy to join Real Madrid or Liverpool
Hardly a shock that a young player would want to join two of the most successful clubs in Europe and now that Origi has gone to AC Milan I suppose he would be happy to join them. Or PSG. Or Bayern Munich
A link for the original interview (in French)
https://rmcsport.bfmtv.com/football/ligue-1/lille-pogba-m-inspire-au-quotidien-confie-amadou-onana_AV-202110140535.html
Another example of how modern churnalism works
If we thought £35m was too much for a 20 year-old that may not start every week, why bid £35m for him? Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
At 20 & with 8 starts, Onana should have a cap on what he can earn. I would argue it should be under £50k. He’s not proven. If Everton are happy to give him what he wants, fair enough.
It ain’t easy.
Clearly he's not going to push Soucek or Rice out of the starting XI but obviously Moyes thinks he has potential. I suppose its a question of whether Moyes thinks his potential is worth the cost or not.
I'm not bothered if we sign him or not, we've got Downes and possibly Coventry as back up for Soucek and Rice
Assuming the Kostic money will go on Cornet, we presumably have the £35m Onana money to spend elsewhere (CM, LB, AM). So possibly two more permanent signings, but I still think that would leave us short, so I would expect at least one loan signing, if not two before the window's done.
£40m-£45m it seems may be left (based on £12m bid for Kostic & £29m bid for Onana).