Transfer Speculation (1st June onwards)

Yeoldhammer

A time to kick on and the owners will not go the extra mile. No wonder why Rice isn't going to sign a new contract. The ambition from these owners is non existant.

Pearces_Left_Foot

Not fussed by Lingard I think Benrahma will play alot more instead better to use the money elsewehere

OldCastleSwift

I get that not replacing Lingard means more pitch time for Benrahma, but who replaces Benrahma on the bench?

The modern game is no longer about the first eleven. We need more depth, so not replacing Lingard reduces out squad options.

Still needs replacing, IMO.

ScotHammer

I don't understand why we are still chasing Lingard. "He will maybe come here in January if he isn't getting game time". IMO
we should not be settling for being anyone's second or backup choice. Move on!

We are all talking about leaving money for a striker. Surely that should be the first destination for funds - its arguably the only position we don't have any cover for. The cover in other areas may not be of the right standard, but at least it's there.

OldCastleSwift

Guardian is running with the story that Zouma has rejected a move to West Ham, which directly contradicts other reputed ITKs (Nico Schira and Ex) who have stated that personal terms have been agreed (Schira) and that he wants to join West Ham (Ex).

Fortuneseeker

WHU, "That's just awful management". I agree that is what is currently going on at the moment. I can't understand why we haven't identified our targets by now & concluded a few deals. I had hopes we would have an improved starting line up for the first game it now looks as if we could be three games in before we see any new additions. Clubs are paying big transfer fees out and it's not just off the back of selling one of their own key assets. All the Premier League teams have been affected by Covid but they are still spending money.

Lukerz

Why would Zouma reject us

In Europe, in London, likely to start

I mean he went to Everton a year or so ago for 12 months

Don’t believe that

yoyo

So many conflicting rumours. I've read we're £4m short of the Chelsea valuation and way short on his pay demands.

Fortuneseeker

Lukerz, Why would Abraham seemingly not want to join us?

Lukerz

Fortune - I don’t personally believe either doesn’t want to. They may have other preferences & want to wait but I don’t think they ‘don’t wish to consider West Ham at all’ is one of them.

OldCastleSwift

Ex on the Zouma talks:

OldCastleSwift

Tomori wasn't happy that Moyes wouldn't guarantee him a start. Did Zouma have a similar expectation?

Either way, sounds like this one may be dead in the water.

IronHerb

It's always going to be tough getting players from Chelsea and the like due to the wages they pay. If someone is prepared to pay what they want then good luck to them. If we decide to pay the high end wages then the likes of Coufal and Soucek will want the same, or similar, or look elsewhere.

It's not straightforward.

Fortuneseeker

OCS, Is it unreasonable for any new (top) player to expect to be a starter? Would a new striker expect that, a LB or CAM the same, IF we had/do sign Jesse Lingard would he be in the starting line up?

IronHerb

But Tomori was nowhere near being a first team starter.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Yes, it is unreasonable. If you're a top player then get yourself into training and prove it.

If a player needs to be told they're definitely starting, then it's a no thanks from me.

A starting place is to be earned, not given.

OldCastleSwift

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Yes, it is unreasonable. If you're a top player then get yourself into training and prove it.

If a player needs to be told they're definitely starting, then it's a no thanks from me.

A starting place is to be earned, not given.

I agree, but I do wonder if Fortune has a point re Lingard. I'm fairly sure that if we did manage to get him before the window closes, he'd start the first game he was available for, irrespective of how well Benrahma or Bowen had done in pre-season.

Fortuneseeker

I suppose you can hope or expect to be a starter but why swap being a reserve on high wages and them move to us with a likely reduction in money and still not be playing in the first team? We should be trying to sign players who will improve the starting line up IMHO.

Lukerz

Pereira is joining Al-Hilal. Fair enough it’s his choice but what a lack of ambition in terms of his footballing career.

OutcastLondoner

OldCastleSwift said:

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

Yes, it is unreasonable. If you're a top player then get yourself into training and prove it.

If a player needs to be told they're definitely starting, then it's a no thanks from me.

A starting place is to be earned, not given.

I agree, but I do wonder if Fortune has a point re Lingard. I'm fairly sure that if we did manage to get him before the window closes, he'd start the first game he was available for, irrespective of how well Benrahma or Bowen had done in pre-season.

Yeah I think so. Which is why I'm not sure I want him. I think the two of them have great potential but they're going to need to play to reach it.

OldCastleSwift

Fortuneseeker said:

I suppose you can hope or expect to be a starter but why swap being a reserve on high wages and them move to us with a likely reduction in money and still not be playing in the first team? We should be trying to sign players who will improve the starting line up IMHO.

It's a fair point. £75k p/w at Chelsea to not play, or £50k p/w at West Ham to not play.

I guess the argument would be that he'd have more chance of a game with us (I'd have him in ahead of Dawson and Diop), but is that chance worth losing £100k a month?

*Obviously I have no idea of his wage situation, but it certainly sounds like he's earning more at Chelsea than we're offering.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

What do you mean 'not play'? Come and earn your place, for goodness sake.

If Zouma looks at Dawson, Diop and Ogbonna and thinks the only way he's guaranteed to start is if he gets it in his contract, then there's something seriously wrong with him.

That would indicate a massive lack of competitiveness and desire, and so I'd rather we didn't sign him.

OldCastleSwift

Jorderz, there's every chance he won't play as often as he wants. And maybe he's happier staying at Chelsea and getting paid more for not playing as often as he wants.

I doubt he's asked for it as a contractual obligation; he's probably just not had a warm feeling from Moyes that he'd get as many games as he'd like. He's 26 and has been a bit part player for a while now. Maybe he wants to make sure his next moves gives him the best chance of becoming a first team regular. Whether you agree or not it's his prerogative.

Lukerz

I doubt we are offering the sort of wages he wants. Normally when a player gives up a top four club for a ‘step down’, they want some sort of ‘softener’. Given we are struggling to agree contracts with Coufal & Rice, reportedly due to terms, it seems there just isn’t the money to be offering £80k a week to new signings.

I can’t see any other reason for the deal to not happen. Zouma must at least be open to exploring the possibility of signing for us.

I’m sure we’ll end up with Milenkovic, who probably wants to move to the PL, is probably not on mega money at Fiorentina & will probably cost a few million less.

MrsGrey

I don't want Moyes giving anyone that kind of warm feeling ( OCS reference earlier). We all read the reports ( and I think we all approved) that when he arrived he told everyone ' if you don't run you don't play'.

Perhaps not those exact words, but the attitude behind it is one I like: earn your place, give 100%, no prima donnas.

OutcastLondoner

It seemed like it was wages anyway, no indication Zouma has said any of this.

With Tomori, I understand it a little bit. If you’re a young player wanting game time to develop then you want your loan move to
be somewhere where you’re going to get that chance rather than be considered back up.

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

I don't want Moyes giving anyone that kind of warm feeling ( OCS reference earlier). We all read the reports ( and I think we all approved) that when he arrived he told everyone ' if you don't run you don't play'.

Perhaps not those exact words, but the attitude behind it is one I like: earn your place, give 100%, no prima donnas.

You don't think he gave that feeling to Lingard?

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Lukerz said:

Pereira is joining Al-Hilal. Fair enough it’s his choice but what a lack of ambition in terms of his footballing career.

That's shocking imo

The abuse Arnautovic etc. Got for downing tools and going for money, at least Arnie was 30 and arguably going to be on his last big contract....This is even worse, he's only 25 and in the prime of his life

I would've loved to get him but now I know where his priorities are I'm glad as we would've had another Payet/Arnie situation in a year or two

Not a moyes player

Slacker

OldCastleSwift said:

Tomori wasn't happy that Moyes wouldn't guarantee him a start. Did Zouma have a similar expectation?

Either way, sounds like this one may be dead in the water.

Just out of interest , how do you know this about Tomori?

OldCastleSwift

Slacker said:

OldCastleSwift said:

Tomori wasn't happy that Moyes wouldn't guarantee him a start. Did Zouma have a similar expectation?

Either way, sounds like this one may be dead in the water.

Just out of interest , how do you know this about Tomori?

It was referenced by Ex. Tomori was reported to want a guarantee that he would start, and Moyes said no.

Of course, whether you believe Ex is another matter, but that debate has probably been done to death.