Transfer Speculation (1st June onwards)

MrsGrey

OldCastleSwift said:

We've signed three U23 players and three more have signed their first pro-contracts.

The cynic in me is beginning to wonder whether we're going to see minimal first-team signings and use the U23s for the three cup competitions.

I'm not reading too much into this. All the clubs sort out their academies over the summer, releasing or giving contracts to the kids, snapping up those who might have been released by other clubs etc. It's a much simpler process than transfers involved first team players, so they always happen quickly.

It's the same every year.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Don't think this changes anything

Think its pretty obvious that the situation is under control and unless he pushes for a transfer or downs tools I don't think we should he concerned

And imo, I can't see him downing tools like Arnie or Payet, he LOVES the club and loves football

He will probably go next years its inevitable really, even the elite clubs sell players they don't really want to

Also think now its a bit easier to stay at 'smaller' teams a bit longer then you would say 5 or 10 years ago

Hes 22 with 3 years left on his contract, agree with whoever above said we should give him a pay rise and a pretty good release clause (around £70mil) to keep him happy for these last 12 months

OutcastLondoner

Lukerz said:

https://twitter.com/ExWHUemployee/status/1410563085639766018

MrsGrey

Lukerz said:

I don't agree that wages should be based ( only) on ability/potential. He's not really achieved all that much yet - I'm sure he himself doesn't compare himself with players who have trophies, and several seasons of performing at the top ( or higher) levels.
I wish were more like clubs that have a robust wage structure in place - and stick to it!

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

OldCastleSwift said:

We've signed three U23 players and three more have signed their first pro-contracts.

The cynic in me is beginning to wonder whether we're going to see minimal first-team signings and use the U23s for the three cup competitions.

I'm not reading too much into this. All the clubs sort out their academies over the summer, releasing or giving contracts to the kids, snapping up those who might have been released by other clubs etc. It's a much simpler process than transfers involved first team players, so they always happen quickly.

It's the same every year.

Maybe, but I don't ever recall this much activity for the U23s in such a short space of time. It's a good thing though that we're strengthening the junior teams and giving youngsters a start in the game.

OutcastLondoner

If these are well scouted youngsters then I’m happy we’re getting the deals in. If they get time, great.

Lukerz

MrsGrey said:

Lukerz said:

I don't agree that wages should be based ( only) on ability/potential. He's not really achieved all that much yet - I'm sure he himself doesn't compare himself with players who have trophies, and several seasons of performing at the top ( or higher) levels.
I wish were more like clubs that have a robust wage structure in place - and stick to it!

The issue is that the club can't value a player at north of £60m (£100m if you believe some reports) but only pay him the wage of a player worth half of that. Regardless of achievements and experience. If they want him to accept a lower wage, they need to bring the price down. If they want over £60m for him, making him one of the most expensive English players in the league, his wages should reflect that.

OldCastleSwift

Exactly that Lukerz. If he's worth £100m to West Ham, West Ham should pay him an equivalent wage.

And re Mrs G's "he's not really achieved all that much yet", I would actually argue that he's achieved a lot, within the limitations of being at West Ham. By the age of 22 he's become a first-team regular, captain, our most important (and, arguably, best) player and an integral part of the national team.

alderz

Lukerz said:

MrsGrey said:

Lukerz said:

I don't agree that wages should be based ( only) on ability/potential. He's not really achieved all that much yet - I'm sure he himself doesn't compare himself with players who have trophies, and several seasons of performing at the top ( or higher) levels.
I wish were more like clubs that have a robust wage structure in place - and stick to it!

The issue is that the club can't value a player at north of £60m (£100m if you believe some reports) but only pay him the wage of a player worth half of that. Regardless of achievements and experience. If they want him to accept a lower wage, they need to bring the price down. If they want over £60m for him, making him one of the most expensive English players in the league, his wages should reflect that.

I mean, they can, it just depends how much they want to dig their heels in.

If a player signs a contract, then they can't leave until the club agree to let them go, and if the club says that (for argument's sake) he can't leave until we receive £80m, then that's that.

The facts are: West Ham don't want to sell Declan Rice. West Ham value Declan Rice at £60m+. Declan Rice has four years left on his contract.

OldCastleSwift

alderz said:

Lukerz said:

MrsGrey said:

Lukerz said:

I don't agree that wages should be based ( only) on ability/potential. He's not really achieved all that much yet - I'm sure he himself doesn't compare himself with players who have trophies, and several seasons of performing at the top ( or higher) levels.
I wish were more like clubs that have a robust wage structure in place - and stick to it!

The issue is that the club can't value a player at north of £60m (£100m if you believe some reports) but only pay him the wage of a player worth half of that. Regardless of achievements and experience. If they want him to accept a lower wage, they need to bring the price down. If they want over £60m for him, making him one of the most expensive English players in the league, his wages should reflect that.

I mean, they can, it just depends how much they want to dig their heels in.

If a player signs a contract, then they can't leave until the club agree to let them go, and if the club says that (for argument's sake) he can't leave until we receive £80m, then that's that.

The facts are: West Ham don't want to sell Declan Rice. West Ham value Declan Rice at £60m+. Declan Rice has four years left on his contract.

Granted they're facts. But if Rice doesn't feel valued, then he's more likely to want to go somewhere that he is, and I suspect by the end of England's tournament he'll have plenty of suitors. Yes, the board can dig in and say 'you signed the contract so that's it for the next four years', but that's probably not the best way to encourage your best player to stay.

jay_in_cpt

Yeoldhammer said:

brilliant business from Leicester so far

Patson - Never seen him or heard of him before ...
Bertrand- Past his best IMO, a free agent after an OK spell at Southampton...

Not sure 'BRILLIANT' is the word....IMO..Of course!

MrsGrey

OldCastleSwift said:

Exactly that Lukerz. If he's worth £100m to West Ham, West Ham should pay him an equivalent wage.

And re Mrs G's "he's not really achieved all that much yet", I would actually argue that he's achieved a lot, within the limitations of being at West Ham. By the age of 22 he's become a first-team regular, captain, our most important (and, arguably, best) player and an integral part of the national team.

Re the Rice ' achievements' I was relating them to the comparison in the original tweet referencing Hernandez, for example.

He's a key, valued player for a team that has had 1 good season in the past ... How many?

He's established himself as a key DM in an international side that has got to the qf of the Euros.

That's it.

Great, yes, but not amazing.

MrsGrey

Don't get me wrong, I love him and hope he stays. But anybody buying him is buying potential, really.

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

Don't get me wrong, I love him and hope he stays. But anybody buying him is buying potential, really.

I think they'd be buying the best English DM in the world right now, personally.

buffybegood

Let's not forget that the main reason he's not won anything is, because, well, he plays for us. It doesn't mean to say that he's not good enough, right now, to play for a team that does win things.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I think Rice is a mature and classy guy, so I think we’re in a good position. He won’t down tools or throw his toys out the pram.

In my opinion he’s a future England captain, and will likely be the captain of whichever club team he plays for in the future. He would be jeopardising that, perhaps permanently, by becoming a sulker.

I think he also has great respect and affection for the club, who picked him up and gave him a pathway to the first team after Chelsea had dropped him.

Like others, fully expect Rice will be leaving for a much bigger team in the next couple of years, but right now I think we hold all the cards.

yoyo

I agree with jordez and if a massive offer came in then it gives the powers that be something to think about.

Lukerz

jay_in_cpt said:

Yeoldhammer said:

brilliant business from Leicester so far

Patson - Never seen him or heard of him before ...
Bertrand- Past his best IMO, a free agent after an OK spell at Southampton...

Not sure 'BRILLIANT' is the word....IMO..Of course!

Agree, Jay

Bertrand would have been the sort of signing we would have made 3 years ago.

OutcastLondoner

He’s inevitably going to be really good for them but would’ve been injured for us.

Fortuneseeker

You could use the Sancho situation. Dortmund are disappointed at having to accept £73 million for him as they wanted £108 million as he wants to move to Manchester United. It is a fact that if you don’t bring in players to supplement the key ones you already have to indicate you are trying to win something then the likes of Sou/Dec will look elsewhere for a team that is more likely to.

Hamstew

I heard Man city got 15% of that too.

claretandbluesky

I think Rice is the real deal and Bobby Moore for us and England if he stays.

I think the deal needs be best wage at the club and an extra two years on the deal but to get him to sign we may have to accept a buy out of £100m triggered after another two years should such an offer arise. This way we guarantee him for at least another two years and will be assured £100m if he goes, he gets a rightful wage increase and is still not tied to us for the entirety of his contract if his fan club remains due to his performances. Were I sully I would offer it without the clause to begin with but accept I may need to offer it. Failing that he stays another year on 30K per week and we accept he wont sign a new contract and sell him next season and probably get between 60-90m

Pearces_Left_Foot

I think we need to take a leaf from Leicester’s transfer playbook re rice if another club wants him they are going to have to pay top dollar for him . We all know he will play for one of the big boys and I think we won’t stand in his way if they make the right offer for the club there is no reason we need to sell him otherwise. Defenders like maguire and VVD went for £75mio plus there is a precedent plus he is English . I think he might stay one more year then go next summer he seems like the sort of bloke who will just get on with it as he knows his time will come.

Lukerz

£70m-£80m is where we need to be at. If anybody offers that he goes. Nobody will, though.

Maguire went for £80m we a CB with 3/4 years on Rice. Rice can play in midfield too.

IronHerb

https://www.claretandhugh.info/declans-reps-turn-down-huge-hammers-offer/

It loses a bit of credibility when it states 'Top strikers – such as Paul Pogba can earn around £250k a week'

I think the West Ham defence has begun.

OldCastleSwift

Just seen that Herbie.

What to think 🤔

It would be a gamble to publish that if it was a downright lie, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I mean, you can imagine Sullivan getting this out there after the fall out this afternoon.

Rice just doesn't seem the type to demand £150k+, so is this just agents being agents? Or is Rice really driving for top, top money?

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Actually quite interested about how expensive midfielders, particularly defensive ones (so not likes of Pogba, Fernandes, De Bruyne etc), are valued

Off the top of my head, Frenkie De Jong has been the most expensive and cost Barca £65mil + £10mil in add ons

Jorginho cost Chelsea £50mil, Kante £35mil (what a steal)

Rodri set City back around £60mil I think, Fernadinho about £30mil (another steal)

Fred £50mil, Fabinho £40mil, Partey £40mil, Kroos £25mil

Obviously some big fees there, but if we have indeed get £70/80mil then likely to be the biggest transfer for a defensive midfielder

Imo, think we'd be happy if someone offered us £70mil

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

OldCastleSwift said:

Just seen that Herbie.

What to think 🤔

It would be a gamble to publish that if it was a downright lie, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I mean, you can imagine Sullivan getting this out there after the fall out this afternoon.

Rice just doesn't seem the type to demand £150k+, so is this just agents being agents? Or is Rice really driving for top, top money?

Well ExWHU is easily the source I trust the most (as he's basically bang on with everything) and he says its less than Yarmolenko/Hernandez so I'm inclined to agree with him over a article that looks like it's written by some random fan on a twitter post

claretandbluesky

I know he is not without ability but what did Yarmalenko ever do to warrant that kind of wage? At least Hernandez had played at the top level.

I think the owners to their credit did what we always hope they will, they made a big appointment in Pelle and backed him, unfortunately he was pretty terrible and we still count the cost.

Fortuneseeker

Pelle probably thought he was joining a club that was going places with a board that would back him in that aim. Unfortunately they did finance his signings but he was taking us in the wrong direction.