Transfer Speculation

baracks_a_hammer

Yeh, you are right Jorderz, especially at his age.

But we will need someone of that style if he doesn’t sign to optimise the way Moyes plays. Which won’t be easy. And in true Moyes style it might well be someone left field.

Lukerz

Another thing to remember, is that Lingard has been there & done it. He’s played Champions League, he’s won titles, he’s won trophies, he’s played for England at major tournaments. This is not a Harry Kane, who is longing for these things.

What I would say, is I agree with Jorderz. I am hearing people quoting £30m-£40m or Rice being involved in any deal. The unfortunate thing for Man Utd, is that he only has a year left so unless Lingard signs some sort of extension, he’s not going to command £30m plus. Nobody will pay that.

Also, I think our team has been a little bit more one dimensional since Lingard has come. Which is fine, but I feel the whole way we now play is built around him & him winning us games almost on his own. Before he came, we were a much more balanced side, we were controlling games more & we were contributing from different angles. This may be because we have lost some key players since he signed, but I do feel it’s been more the Lingard show.

baracks_a_hammer

A very valid point Lukerz. We suffer in the aftermath when we make it about one player. The aftermath of Payet, the aftermath of Arnie. Having said that though, even a team like Man Utd is a totally different proposition without Bruno.

Lukerz

It’s why the defence has struggled. We had a lot more control of games before Lingard came. Since he arrived, other than his debut & maybe Sheff Utd at home, it’s been about being clinical, usually through him, & then trying to make sure we keep the goals conceded less than the ones we scored. I felt Leeds could have got 3/4 against us, Spurs, Wolves, Arsenal, Leicester, however these are good sides. I think our all round game was better before he arrived, but this is not a dig at him.

OldCastleSwift

Lukerz said:

Another thing to remember, is that Lingard has been there & done it. He’s played Champions League, he’s won titles, he’s won trophies, he’s played for England at major tournaments. This is not a Harry Kane, who is longing for these things.

This is a very good point. I've now doubt his experience and pedigree has helped the rest of the team. You can tell the players trust him with the ball and 9 time out of 10 he does the right thing with the ball. The same could be said of Soucek and Coufal, actually. Both have tasted domestic success at Slavia and are experienced on the European and international front. The three of them are winners; something we haven't had in our squads for a long time when you think about it.

OutcastLondoner

In those early January games, we worked our way into the opposition half and found extra men to make the attacking run. It was often Benrahma who was finding space and he got a few assists and key passes in that period. When Lingard came in it became far more direct and I agree, I think we've lost some control. Though you do have to consider the element of losing Oggie might also be to blame for that.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

I agree Jorderz

He is in the form of his life and is indispensable, but its a purple patch

Hes never shown this type of form (I mean who has...) so I do t think United will ask for £50mil

I mean from United perspective, even if we get top 4 we aren't really a threat to them, they will be much more worried of Leicester, Spurs, Arsenal etc. Because financially they could improve

Ball is in Lingards court, imo I think he'd be foolish to extend his United stay or join someone else, this is the first time he's been truly recognised and he's a key player for us

But if he fancies himself at United then that's all it is, think he would regret it as he isn't getting.to paly in his favoured position with Bruno in his best position and Rashford in his 2nd favourite

Lukerz

United have the following front four:

Greenwood - Fernandes - Rashford
Martial

I think they will replace Martial, but I don’t think Lingard is going to be seen as a longer term option over Greenwood & Rashford. Ole likes both of them & sees them as the future. The question is, will he convert one of them to a ST, or sign a new forward? If he does, that could free up a RW/LW spot.

whupathman

Anderson was an unused Sub on the Porto bench vs the Chavs in the CL quarters

OldCastleSwift

Worst possible situation really. No doubt we loaned him in the hope that he'd maintain some value and garner some interest.

Instead it looks like his value will have tanked and I can't see too many teams taking on his wages given how little he's produced over the last couple of seasons.

whupathman

maybe he will come back and realise he needs to put a shift in, which I doubt as a wasted talent unfortunately

IronHerb

We've only looked really shaky in the last 3 games imo. Of course we came under pressure in the other games but that's the EPL for you.

I can't see the argument that Lingard has unbalanced us either. We scored our goals from set pieces or on the counter attack in the main. Currently we are scoring mainly on the swift counter attack. Previously we had Antonio leading that charge but he doesn't have the technique or tactical nous of Lingard so the attacks broke down more frequently and hence our defence were already in place for the opposition counter strike.

If we don't aspire to sign players like Lingard when the rare chance arises then we will soon see the back of Rice, Soucek et al.

He's worth £30m of anyones money but I don't think he will cost that much.

Go get him Moyes.

Lukerz

Mail report Real Madrid, PSG & Inter are all monitoring Lingard.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I think the Mail are being a bit silly with that.

BubblesNeverDies

Lukerz said:

Mail report Real Madrid, PSG & Inter are all monitoring Lingard.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes said:

I think the Mail are being a bit silly with that.

Lingard's stats from Wiki - appearances (goals)
2011– Manchester United 133 (18)
2012–2013 → Leicester City (loan) 5 (0)
2013–2014 → Birmingham City (loan) 13 (6)
2014 → Brighton & Hove Albion (loan) 15 (3)
2015 → Derby County (loan) 14 (2)
2021– → West Ham United (loan) 9 (8)

Another way of looking at it is it's just a flash in the pan.
I very much doubt that he would replicate his performances with us at any of those other clubs simply because of their different styles of play. A certain Sebastian Haller comes to mind.

IronHerb

Why a flash in the pan? Perhaps we're playing to the style that suits him.

alderz

We definitely are playing a style that suits him, and being on the pitch for the whole game every week is going to have helped a lot. But his first this weekend doesn't slot in the corner 99 times out of a 100. I think that, if he stays, he'll be a big player for us. But he won't be doing nearly a goal a game for next season, not a chance.

MunichHammer

If he does that (score roughly a goal a game) then we could probably double whatever we pay ManU this summer.
He certainly is looking like a 20 goals a season player. I'd like to see him and Benrahma on the pitch from the start some day. The main problem for Benrahma, though, is that we are on such a rich form and so close to CL football next year that changing the team to include him could backfire badly. Makes me glad it's not my decision to make.

Lukerz

He’s also playing like a player who has just started the season, & not had the gruel of the previous 22 games, which was a hectic, 3 game a week period between September & February, including the Xmas period. We’ve now settled down into a more ‘one game a week’ system & he’s only played 9 games this season, unlike some of our side who have played over 30.

IronHerb

Same can be said for Noble.

BubblesNeverDies

IronHerb said:

Why a flash in the pan? Perhaps we're playing to the style that suits him.

I was just presenting an alternative view based on his previous clubs and goals per game.
I've already stated in other posts that we're playing to the style that suits him. However, since he's only played 9 games for us, it would be dangerous to extrapolate his form for a whole season.
As Alderz said, "he won't be doing nearly a goal a game for next season, not a chance".
None of this is to say that I don't want him to stay. I've already posted that I think he's the most gifted player I've seen at West Ham since Payet.

Lukerz

IronHerb said:

Same can be said for Noble.

Yeah I agree with this too

baracks_a_hammer

Have to say it is a little disheartening to read comments about lingard which somehow taint or place a caveat on what he has been doing for us, and therefore potentially cautioning whether we should sign him

For example
He’s never done this before earlier in his career (implying it must be a blip)
He’s not played the full season (implying he might not be able to keep it up)
If he tried that again he’d be unlikely to succeed
Etc

So if we used those caveats as a reason not to sign him, equally we should use that as a benchmark for who we DO sign then (in the interests of fairness)? Great, so let’s start a list of those who might tick those boxes:

1. KDB
2. Kane

Over to you, Sully

Lukerz

Baracks - just to say, I want him to stay & I want to sign him. I am not tainting his achievements. However, there are a number of factors as to why his form is basically world class yet he could not get a game for Man Utd ahead of Dan James. I also just pointed out that, in my view, the dynamics of the side have changed slightly. We are still winning so it’s not a bad change.

I have seen fans say we need to spend £35m on him (not on here). That is never going to happen and nor should it.

Lukerz

Anybody seen the guy who plays for WBA. Yokuslu? He looks a tidy & decent player for a CM.

OldCastleSwift

I saw Josh Brownhill was linked at the weekend. I'd be happy with him as a third CM option going into next season.

Lukerz

OldCastleSwift said:

I saw Josh Brownhill was linked at the weekend. I'd be happy with him as a third CM option going into next season.

Amazingly I saw he is one of the leagues top tacklers yet has only been booked twice!

Bazshuayi

Simplistically, for me, Lingard has come here fresh and with something to prove. Yes there are a few factors to consider but the fact that hes our main man (as opposed to being played out of position plus only periodically playing) and him scoring straight away has undoubtedly boosted his confidence. He has the pedigree plus is used to being in a certain winning (ambitious and expected to be) environment. He brings things to the table that it would be very tricky for us to replicate. His age is a plus for me as his next few years should see his peak. Playing the prominent attacking role every week in a confident team that is pulling together/has great team spirit has helped him maintain and see his confidence skyrocket. Whatever the money involved, we will not be able to find anyone like him. So, for me, the short version is that we should pay whatever it takes and hope he sees us as his future (understood its not my money)

claretandbluesky

If I had to make a prediction regard Lingard.

He has a conversation in which OGS says he wants to keep him but can't guarantee a place and wants him to sign a new contract if he stays and fights for a place so they don't lose him for nothing later. He says no.

He has options but either chooses us because we keep Rice and sell him a plan to progress.

Or he goes to Everton because it's nearer Manchester.

Or he goes to Inter Milan as he is sold the idea by his friend Lukaku

If he is sold it will be for between 20 -25m and probably stated as undisclosed fee.

alderz

The inter thing is interesting. I thought that sounded viable, but there are a lot of rumours they need to sell Lukaku as they are in financial trouble. Seems unlikely that they’d spend £25m without selling him, and if they do sell him I’m not sure Jesse would go there.

Everton is the one that worries me most, particularly as there is talk that James wants to leave.