The new manager hunt (was the Moyes thread) only 3 days to wait...

IronHerb

But Moyes has seen him for 4 months and given him 12 minutes!

baracks_a_hammer

Cuz

Tbf I don’t think anyone is writing him off. It is probably more a case of bewilderment as to how a player signed from the championship cannot get much game time for a side which is playing championship standard football.

Cuz1

Lukerz said hugill- enough said, pretty much written off in my language tbh

Yeoldhammer

He will not be here if we are still in the Prem come the end of the Summer window.

Lukerz

Cuz1 said:

Lukerz said hugill- enough said, pretty much written off in my language tbh

Only have to look at his pitch time since he arrived to know he’s been written off by Moyes, and that’s the important thing.

Cuz1

Or maybe he wasn’t a Moyes signing or he’s brought him for next season but at price paid good to know you have given him a chance

Cuz1

And if Moyes really as written him off already he shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near our transfer budget or our club imo

ASLEFshrugged

I thought Hugill was Moyes's suggestion when the deal for Slimani fell through. I somehow doubt DS would have recommended Hugill, he's not on FIFA14 so Jack wouldn't know about him.

MrsGrey

baracks_a_hammer said:

worse than grant and macari in terms of win percentages. And presiding over a defence that is all over the place.

The % is calculated over such a small number of games that a couple of wins can add nearly 10% to the figure. So % should be taken under advisement at this stage, imo

But if we are doing % as a measure of manager's success, I'm more interested in home record than all games, and also in loss % overall. I want these figures to be high, and low, respectively.

A quick look at results since Moyes was appointed shows 11 losses out of 24... just over 44%. I don't know how that compares to previous managers. If I get time later, I'll look.

For us, I think we should be focus on doing as well as possible at home and on losing as few as possible overall. (PL stats only, not Cups, as that's a whole different ball game.)

ASLEFshrugged

Its hard to compare Moyes with other West Ham managers apart from Curbishley, the only other manager who took over mid-season in the top flight while we were nudging relegation

Pardew and Bonds took over mid-season in the second tier while the rest took over during the summer break (or in Zola's case so soon after the beginning of the season that it hardly matters).

Curbs' league record in that first season was P21 W8 D3 L10 GF 25 GA 36 PTs 27

SuzanneClaret

Moyes played what was possibly the slowest defence in the league against Citeh!

His decistion to play the octogenarian Pat Evra, not a lack of defenders.

I dont want him to stay.

I dont have any idea who to replace him with though.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Exactly Suze

He's got it wrong tactically quite a few times

But again who else is available, every manager we could bring an element of risk

But I would rather it not be moyes

whupathman

The season we went down under rodent he fell out with di canio and we went down. Moyes has fallen out with Carroll and it looks like he is out Saturday. Ok the manager is boss so fine him, three games left and the next one winnable so leave a huge asset at home for an example hurts the club and the clubs future. If moyes wants to set an example sell him in the summer. Do not hurt the clubs chances by not having that option, it makes Leicester’s job easier knowing not to have to plan for Carroll in the squad.

Cuz1

Yes Moyes his the boss but least Carroll wanted to play and hurt he wasn’t used as a sub so although wrong for storming off I get his frustration, he bent over backwards to get hart in the team for his England ambitions so maybe ac felt the same, fine him move on because we may need the big man in the last few games

Yeoldhammer

Good move by Moyes, keeps Carroll injury free. Its a risk but if it pays off we can flog Carroll in the Summer.

IronHerb

That's if AC wants to go.
Also why would you sacrifice Prem status for a £10m transfer fee? I'm not saying AC is the answer this season but he certainly is an option and all options should be on the table at this stage.

alderz

MrsGrey said:

baracks_a_hammer said:

worse than grant and macari in terms of win percentages. And presiding over a defence that is all over the place.

The % is calculated over such a small number of games that a couple of wins can add nearly 10% to the figure. So % should be taken under advisement at this stage, imo

But if we are doing % as a measure of manager's success, I'm more interested in home record than all games, and also in loss % overall. I want these figures to be high, and low, respectively.

A quick look at results since Moyes was appointed shows 11 losses out of 24... just over 44%. I don't know how that compares to previous managers. If I get time later, I'll look.

For us, I think we should be focus on doing as well as possible at home and on losing as few as possible overall. (PL stats only, not Cups, as that's a whole different ball game.)

I have the raw data to do this in my spreadsheet ;ok

MrsGrey

;bowdown

I'd love to see it, but only if you have time.

(I don't expect others to do my research for me ;hug )

OldCastleSwift

As if Alderz wouldn't find the time for stats ;biggrin

alderz

Ok, so it only goes back to the start of the 1994/95 season, but that gives us our last 9 permanent managers. I've done it in a few different ways, but I think the best way to answer the question is about home games in the premier league only. So I've completely excluded cup games, away games, championship/division one games, and games taken by a caretaker manager.

So this first chart is just the overall home win % in the premier league. Over the 397 home premier league games we played in that period we won 174 (43.8%). Moyes is much below anyone (other than Avram) with 30.8%.



This second chart shows the wins, draws and losses for each manager to give a sense of perspective around the numbers. Moyes has had 13 home matches so far, while Harry Redknapp had 135.

alderz

I hadn't noticed the overall loss part you mentioned so here's that too.

Only two managers have a better loss % than Moyes (41.7% losses) in the PL - Harry (38.7%) and Slav (35.6%).

MrsGrey

Wow. Thanks alderz.

That's really useful to inform the discussion (imo) ;thumbsup

With the caveat that Moyes has had a relatively few games in charge, so the stas are based on quite a small sample, it looks like we are hard to beat... although it may be that further analysis of losing scorelines show that when we are beaten, we are thoroughly beaten. ;weep

Vorselaarhammer

Why did we sack Bilic again.... ;hmm

alderz

MrsGrey said:

With the caveat that Moyes has had a relatively few games in charge, so the stas are based on quite a small sample, it looks like we are hard to beat... although it may be that further analysis of losing scorelines show that when we are beaten, we are thoroughly beaten. ;weep

"Further analysis" you say... ;hmm

I just looked at all our losses, summed goals for and against and averaged them by manager. Again, Premier League only.

Under Moyes, when we lose we concede an average of 3.3 goals and score an average of 0.8. No other permanent manager (post-Bonds) has a worse defensive record in defeat than Moyes does.

That record puts him at an average goal difference per defeat of -2.50. The next worse was Avram (-2.11), and the best was (unsurprisingly) Big Sam (-1.65).

So, basically, when we lose under Moyes we lose more heavily than in under any other of our last 9 managers.

The flip side of that is that we actually also have our most convincing win margin under Moyes too. When we win in the league (it's only happened 6 times under him so it's not a good sample) under Moyes we score 2.50 goals per game and concede 0.33 per game, a goal difference of +2.17 per win. The next best is Avram (+2.00) and the worst was Pardew (+1.40).

The thing to take from that, IMO, is that Avram and Moyes have won far, far less than the others so their win analysis is not robust.

Lukerz

alderz ;ok great stuff.

Says a lot for our mentality under Moyes. And the general mentality of the players. First goal, as the cliche goes, appears to be vital. We don't recover after going 1-0 down, but are pretty good when going 1-0 up. Was the same under Bilic too.

Lukerz

Also saw a stat to say in the few games AC has started this season (think it was 7), we have won 3, drawn 3 and lost 1 (win % 43).

He obviously makes a big impact when fit to start. And after scoring against Stoke, I think he is entitled to be miffed at his minutes in the last two games.

Lukerz

Speaking of which, Carroll resumes training after apologising to Moyes:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11685/11355862/andy-carroll-returns-to-west-ham-training-after-apologising-to-david-moyes

grey_til_I_dye

Nice to see that Moyes isn't letting ego get in the way of what is the best for the club.

baracks_a_hammer

Something is getting in the way of him giving chicharito more game time and one can’t help but feel whatever it is is a spillover from the Man U days

grey_til_I_dye

baracks

I don't think it is personal, I think it is tactical.

Chicarito needs a particular kind of service, and if Moyes doesn't feel we can set up to provide that for 90 minutes, then he won't play him. We probably carry a greater offensive threat when Chicarito is on the pitch, but we pay a price in terms of our defensive side.

You can argue that Moyes is wrong about that, but I honestly don't see him allowing personality to get in the way of success.