Summer 2017 Transfer Speculation (continued)

FlorinRaduclious · August 2017

I was between jobs for part of the summer of 2015 and watched pretty much all the 2015 European U21 Championships. Due to weird rules a 23 year old William Carvalho could play for Portugal's U21, after he had already played for at least a year for the senior team. He was awesome. Head and shoulders over most other players in the competition. Obviously he clearly benefited from being further ahead in his development than most other players but I remember at the time thinking that he had a huge future in front of him. Every transfer window I have expected him to move to a bigger team in a bigger league but he has stayed with Sporting. I must note that outside those U21 Champo's in 2015 I've only seen him play once at the last Senior Euro's in 2016 in the final. He looked good in that. From what I have seen he would be great for us. A definitive DCM who sits and holds. Great engine but not a top end sprinter. Resultantly not as everywhere as a Kante, but had very good distribution and vision, exceeding Kante IMO. Very calm on the ball. Very strong and a top tackler. He is a pure DCM in that he didn't push forward too much, I imagine he would work best in a 433 with the middle three working as a 'v' with him at the base. Maybe this is why Bilic wanted fewer attacking mid's as he wants to go 433 rather than 4231?

-----------JH/ASM-------------
PZ/SB---WR/JC--JF/AO---AC/AM
----------Carvalho----------
----CK/MN-------PO/ML-----
MO/RS------------------MA/AA
---------JH/AC/DS----------

Looks a good squad. Efectively take your pick from 5 for the two box to box CMs. Fernandes can come in as one of the higher CMs or Wingers, and Lanz can also play wing. Obiang can deputise at DCM if Carvalho is out.

tomkinsworldclass · August 2017

Florin, ;clap ;clap He's always impressed me whenever I've seen him and if we can get it over the line then it would be a great addition for the club. An out and out DCM, very composed, efficient, strong and intelligent in how he plays the game. Would hopefully free up Noble, obaing, Kouyate, etc to play higher up knowing that we do have a high quality holding midfield back.

Moore_than_a_nick · August 2017

I shared the DM story on this yesterday, but good to hear jinxed is saying it's nearly over the line - I seem to recall he's normally quite reliable?

I think this might actually allow Nobes to start more often. Carvalho would replace Obiang, leaving space for more of a passing CM in the 4-2-3-1 system. Maybe Carvalho and Obiang would play against the absolute strongest oppo.

The 4-3-3 system has had me a bit perplexed recently. I'm not sure we have the players for it. Mainly the wide two in the midfield. You want players that can create but also defend. I think Lanzini has shown he can do this, but I think he's better suited in a freer role as per the 4-2-3-1 system. I think Nobes and Kouyate are the obvious choices for the wide roles, around Obiang (or Carvalho if we get him). But I think we then lose out on creativity by only having two real attacking players either side of the striker. Of the more attacking players, Antonio is the only one I'd like to see in such a midfield 3. But even then, I'd rather see him further up.

Lastly, if we don't have AC, do we have the strikers for this system? I don't think so.

So I think it could work with Nobes-Obiang/Carvalho-Kouyate against strong teams and with Lanzini-Obiang/Carvalho-Antonio against weaker teams. But we're one injury/suspension away from square pegs in round holes again, and it would seem to weaken our attacking options as well.

FlorinRaduclious · August 2017

Would be a huge signing TWC. At the moment I in all honesty am not getting my hopes too high as I thought another big budget signing was unlikely this summer. I just really hope we do see it transfer confirmed on the official site! Freeing up those boys could enable us to play some good technical football IMO, with Carvalho spreading the play and being the lynch pin. Generally I have been a fan of 4231 for us, but feel that formation with Carvalho wouldn't work quite so well, so it would be a change of style for us if it occurred to the 433, however Slav was clearly experimenting with that over the pre season.

Moore_than - in a classic 433 the two wingers don't track back too much. Protection is done with the three middle men who shuffle across slightly where necessary to where the play is, particularly the 'free' DCM. Antonio would certainly not be in the middle three but one of the wingers - he is not technical enough for the box to box men, but is right for the wing position being quick and a good dribbler. For a classic 433 (think Barce) of your three middle you have an out and out DCM (ie Busquets) and then two more box to box but generally technically very astute players (ie Xavi/Iniesta/Rakatic), obviously we'd be on a slightly lower level!

**please note the MO on my above formation at RW should have been MA!

FlorinRaduclious · August 2017

Just realised I misread your point Moore_than, sorry! I personally think Noble, Kouyate, Obiang, Lanzini and Fernandes could all play the middle two above the DCM as box to boxerz. Choose depending on opposition/form. My only concern is that if we do bring in Carvalho we will have too many players vying for only a couple of places and akin to Nordtveit last year, someone will not get enough games and be unhappy. In my opinion that is likely to be Kouyate as he is probably not technical enough to play that formation. This would be a shame as I like CK, but that is what I think is likely. Of course if he would be willing to play at CB...

As far as the central striker goes 433 leads more into the hands of a quick forward as opposed to a hold up man, as he has the two wingers up with him pretty much all the time. With 4231 the lone striker role is more of a target man who then has the three attacking mids catch up to him and he can lay it off to them. Thereby 433 is probably better for Chicharito where as 4231 is probably better for Carroll.

Vorselaarhammer · August 2017

Sporting have told West Ham they must pay £36m for William Carvalho, this price has not scared the club off. [Mirror]

McHammer · August 2017

Lisbon have signed Battaglia to replace him so looking good. Keep these non exciting signings rolling.

McHammer · August 2017

In less good news villa claim the Snoddy rumours are not true

IronHerb · August 2017

It's a World Cup year so Snoddy needs first team football ;run

Bazshuayi · August 2017

In an eloquent sort of way, I'd wet my pants if we signed Carvalho! ;wahoo

imagelost · August 2017

Any sauce with this carvalho story

imagelost · August 2017

imagelost said:
Any sauce with this carvalho story

New I mean

FlorinRaduclious · August 2017

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years · August 2017

Sadly just don't see Carvalho going to us, think the club are kean and Carvalho does want to go the team EPL.....but at a bigger club and this is just a bit to prompt someone into gazumping us

Bazshuayi · August 2017

As always I will be blindly optimistic and say hes coming!

(note to self: learn from Bats ;weep )

Moore_than_a_nick · August 2017

Florin - thanks. I admit I momentarily forgot about Fernandes, who I would see as the right kind of player for the two wider/more attacking midfielders in a 4-3-3. But perhaps not quite at the right standard to start too often yet.

I agree Antonio wouldn't be the best fit there - I was just thinking he could play at a pinch there if we wanted to start Lanzini and Arnie in the three with Chicharito. Not ideal though.

So that leads me not to be too concerned about having too many midfield players to keep satisifed in a 4-3-3, since actually there's one more birth for a midfielder than our usual set-up, and even with Carvalho, we'd mainly be looking at 3 from him, Obiang, Nobes and Cheik. That's not enough, in my view, rather than too many. Hence my concern that we'd be an injury (or two) away from having to play people out of position. This stems from our buying loads of ball-crossing wingers and then moving to a system that doesn't use them.

I like your point about the nature of the striker suited to the 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 systems. I guess I was thinking in 4-2-3-1, the striker would have a kind of no. 10 close to him (Lanzini generally, or Ayew as back-up). So almost like having two strikers, hence not needing the striker to have to be so strong at holding up the ball - because he'll more likely be receiving short passes from the 3 behind him and will more likely have someone close to him to pass to. Whereas in a 4-3-3, sometimes the widemen do get quite wide (the full-backs can't always be very far advanced) and I think we saw this when we used to play Enner and Sakho there - even these two ended up with chalk on their flashy boots. So then you have a more isolated striker, unless your two ACMs really get up to support in turns.

So I'll be keeping a more specific eye on how this pans out in our team and others from now on!

Moore_than_a_nick · August 2017

Sam Inkersole (West Ham writer at Football London) said on twitter that Carvalho wants to come to West Ham, but couple of hurdles still to clear (which seem to be the fee and Sporting's Champions League qualifier).

https://twitter.com/Sam_InkersoleTM/status/895402887790067712