Slaven Bilic named as West Ham Manager (09.06.15)

OldCastleSwift

Slaven_Cups_His_Beard said:

They held a meeting about Antonio being RB as well

They held a meeting about Sakho kicking off at not starting

They held a meeting about removing Payet from the WhatsApp group

They sound like a close bunch who love a meeting

;ok

Call me old fashioned, but I would expect the manager to be involved in these meetings. Surely he's an integral part of fixing the mess we're in.

MrsGrey

But if it's a player mtg ... presumably not?

Unless you think they shouldn't have player mtgs?

And, you're assuming Izzy's information is accurate.

And, you're assuming there weren't 'whole team' mtgs with Slav, in addition to the 'no bosses present' mtgs.

(As far as I'm concerned, I see nothing wrong or sinister in the club capt having a mtg with the players alone. I can think of several other instances were this has reportedly happened, and not just at WHU.)

MarkNobleLocalHero

Bilic confirms that a meeting was held with club captain Mark Noble.

"The players had a meeting," he said. "I had a meeting with Mark. A long meeting, chat whatever you want to call it. It was very positive…..we have to play better and get points especially from our home games."

Leaves me full of confidence.

"we have to play better and get points especially from our home games".

No kidding Sherlock ;hmm .....genius ;doh !!!!

Now that's what I call a manager ;wahoo

OldCastleSwift

MrsGrey said:

But if it's a player mtg ... presumably not?

Unless you think they shouldn't have player mtgs?

And, you're assuming Izzy's information is accurate.

And, you're assuming there weren't 'whole team' mtgs with Slav, in addition to the 'no bosses present' mtgs.

If there were 'whole team meetings' I'd have expected Bilic to reference them in his press conference, rather than the players meeting separately.

I'm not assuming anything; I'm going on what Bilic actually said. It may well be that there's a regular 'players only' meeting and all is well at the club, but personally I'm not convinced.

MrsGrey

No, sorry,my fault, I was perhaps unclear...

.. when I referred to whole team mtgs it was in the context of those other historical 'issues' that were mentioned (Payet etc). Which of course Slav wouldn't reference in today's presser ;ok

PrestonHammer

How about they all get together and work out a way to actually play together as a team and not as 11 individuals.

secrethammersfan

From the above, it looks like the players are looking for leadership, and Bilic seems to be more of a "lassez faire" kind of manager. He wants the players to "go out and do their best" without being very hands on.
This is all pure conjecture, but lack of direct leadership -especially in younger players- can lead to disillusionment and lack of motivation. If you don't think your boss cares whether you tear down the wing or stay back deep, why should you bother?

Moojor

secrethammersfan said:

From the above, it looks like the players are looking for leadership, and Bilic seems to be more of a "lassez faire" kind of manager. He wants the players to "go out and do their best" without being very hands on.
This is all pure conjecture, but lack of direct leadership -especially in younger players- can lead to disillusionment and lack of motivation. If you don't think your boss cares whether you tear down the wing or stay back deep, why should you bother?

To me it reads as the same way that BFS handled things. I remember an interview with Nolan about how he took the issues etc from the dressing room and took them to the manager.
Like wise the BFS would raise stuff with Nolan who would take it back to the players meetings.
I would assume that this sort of management is across the board in most clubs. That's what you have a team captain for, they are the go between for some stuff.
That's not to say that the manager is hands off or anything but sometimes you need the rollicking to come from the players on the pitch.
The manager is limited in what he can do when the players step on to the pitch, so you need to captain to be able to command the respect on the pitch and off it.

You can't man manage every single person.

alderz

It's interesting to me that we lack leadership on the pitch, and that the managers mouthpiece (supposedly) is sat next to him on the bench. We may not be setting the world alight when Noble is in the side, but at least there seems to be more effort and some kind of strategy.

For Slav to turn it around, IMO, he needs to a) stick with 3 at the back, b) have some passionate players in the side, c) offer some kind of attacking plan that isn't just long ball.

I would like to see him try:

Hart
Fonte Reid Collins
Antonio Noble Obiang Cresswell
Lanzini
Carroll Hernandez

OutcastLondoner

I like that but I also really want Zabaleta in somehow because a) I think he's done better than most b) he's shown more passion than anyone this season.

Antonio at RWB seems like clearly the best solution for us – he can still attack but it allows us to fit everyone else in. Sometimes I feel like, as much as Antonio's is probably our most effective player, trying to fit him in at RW limits the formations we can use.

alderz

I want Zabaleta in too, but it feels like we are just trying to shoehorn in everyone at the moment, and (however well he's done at wingback) he isnt a wingback, nor a centre back

mike

secrethammersfan said:

From the above, it looks like the players are looking for leadership, and Bilic seems to be more of a "lassez faire" kind of manager. He wants the players to "go out and do their best" without being very hands on.
This is all pure conjecture, but lack of direct leadership -especially in younger players- can lead to disillusionment and lack of motivation. If you don't think your boss cares whether you tear down the wing or stay back deep, why should you bother?

Can we have a "I sort of agree" icon. ;hmm

eskimoking

It's been suggested before, but if there is a lack of leadership, and he's not as good as our other midfielders, what about playing Nobes as one of three at the back? Like a deep-lying playmaker. Reid and one other either side. Antonio as a wingback Cress/Masuaku as the other.
Still allows us to play Obiang, Kouyate, Lanzini and two others ahead of them.

Yeoldhammer

Because if Nobes plays in the back 3, we will be down to 10 men and a penalty given against us in the first 20 minutes of the match.

Barney

one of his back passes would surely get us in trouble!

eskimoking

Yeoldhammer said:

Because if Nobes plays in the back 3, we will be down to 10 men and a penalty given against us in the first 20 minutes of the match.

Well, no it wouldn't. Take a bet on it?

Our current problem is, apparently, a lack of leadership. Play the captain. We have enough quality (or should do) to carry him ability wise.

alderz

I think Noble has plenty of ability, I think he is hung out to dry in a 2 man midfield in front of back 4.

TwistandShout

alderz said:

I think Noble has plenty of ability, I think he is hung out to dry in a 2 man midfield in front of back 4.

Noble is still good enough but he needs a proper DM next to him. Bilic realised that and wanted Carvalho... The owners didn't back him...

alderz

I don't know that they didn't back him, but no they didn't manage to sign his target

Yeoldhammer

eskimoking said:

Yeoldhammer said:

Because if Nobes plays in the back 3, we will be down to 10 men and a penalty given against us in the first 20 minutes of the match.

Well, no it wouldn't. Take a bet on it?

Our current problem is, apparently, a lack of leadership. Play the captain. We have enough quality (or should do) to carry him ability wise.

If he plays at CB ever I would take a bet he gives a pen away because he always give a free kick 5 yards outside the box every game in the midfield.

IronHerb

He's never playing CB though is he?

welovethehammers

Playing Noble at centre back is a suicide move. Worse than playing Antonio at right back. Imagine if a big centre forward picked on Noble. Or even a pacey striker would run rings round him. If we were to play our CM's at CB I'd choose any of the others over Noble (Obiang / Kouyate particularly).

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I think our central defence is bad enough without adding in somebody short, slow, inexperienced in that position and a pretty poor tackler.

tomkinsworldclass

Noble doesnt have the legs or discipline to play in a 2 and we dont have enough pace within the team to be effective enough on the counter to compensate by dropping deeper but nonetheless he is an important player and if we can accommodate him then we should do because he is a fine footballer. The best way IMO would be to play him in a 3 alongside Lanzini and Kouyate with wingbacks either side, 3 at the back and a genuine 2 up front through the middle.

TwistandShout

Jorderz_Slaven_A_Good_Time said:

I think our central defence is bad enough without adding in somebody short, slow, inexperienced in that position and a pretty poor tackler.

Yeah but apart from that jorderz?

Moore_than_a_nick

Sort of agree, TWC, but I think the Brighton game was just the kind of game in which we could have played Nobes at the base of a diamond or as a deeplying playmaker in some other formation. Indeed, I would have brought him on at half time (or sooner) in this role, and told Lanzini to play much closer to Chicharito.

I think against better teams, he may be able to play this same role alongside a strong ballwinner, and agree that if Kouyate (or Obiang) were on form and told to play the ballwinner role, a 3-5-2 with Kouyate/Obiang, Nobes and Lanzini in front of them as the middle three would be what I'd like to see us try.

Getting slightly off topic, perhaps! But to get back to Bilic - he clearly needs to give Arnie the chance to justify his transfer, since he seems dear to Bilic's heart, which means the formations discussed above are unlikely. The more reasonable problem is how to shoe-horn in Antonio - maybe Bilic feels he can't even play him at RWB after the fallout over playing him at RB, even if these are two different positions. (Zaba's also hard to drop - unless he gives away another needless pen soon...)

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

TwistandShout_I_love_Allardyce said:

Jorderz_Slaven_A_Good_Time said:

I think our central defence is bad enough without adding in somebody short, slow, inexperienced in that position and a pretty poor tackler.

Yeah but apart from that jorderz?

I think it’s a great idea.

buffybegood

If it's leadership we need, then we should look to include Noble and/or Collins

Something like:


Hart
Fonte Reid Collins
Obiang
Antonio Noble Kouyate Masuaku
Lanzini
Hernandez

Back to a back 3 where we've looked a lot more solid, Obiang sits in front, with Noble and Kouyate making up a midfield 3 that again should cope much better than a 2. Masuaku over Cresswell for me on what I've seen so far this season, and we should look to get Antonio's head back in the game; he's more than capable of a wing back role even if he'd prefer fewer defensive responsibilities. Wing back is very different to full back, and should suit him very well. Although I can see an argument for Lanzini a bit deeper, if we've got Noble there collecting the ball from the defence then I'd like to see Lanzini further forward linking with Hernandez.

Thoughts?

eskimoking

IronHerb said:

He's never playing CB though is he?

Don't know, I can't see the future.

baracks_a_hammer

I may get a lot of stick but I don’t see noble as a particularly great “leader”. Where’s the evidence? Certainly not through the struggles of last season. And as for Slavs 1st season, surely many of the better things that happened all revolved around Payet?

I would rate both Nolan and Lucas Neill as better West Ham captains, even though both, like Nobes, had their limitations in terms of footballing ability.