Transfer rumours and speculation to take us through to summer.

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  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    OutcastLondoner said:

    And didn't he have a few injuries at Leeds?

    Not many, he missed a few games in 13/14 but otherwise he was available.

    12/13 50(3)
    13/14 19(8)
    14/15 36(3)
    15/16 17(7) (half a season)

    In the two and a half seasons Byram could have played for West Ham he was only available for 52 games out of 111 (inc Europa League) with just 26 starts out of 36 appearances.

    Last season he was out from the end of August to the beginning of April, playing three games at the start of his loan period with Forest and another five at the end.

    Getting £750k for him is a bloomin' miracle.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    I am seriously struggling to think of too many instances where we have sold a player and I have thought “we’ve done ok out of that”

    In fact, in recent years I can only think of three occasions

    Ashley Fletcher (by far the best result when it comes to a player sale in the Sully era)
    Ayew (if as rumoured we more or less got back the fee we paid, that was a pretty decent result)
    Craig Bellamy

    Even if you put aside the suppressed fees achieved for Payet and Arnie, I personally look at other sales and am somewhat underwhelmed. For example

    Edmilson
    Kouyaté
    Enner (whose record with us was still significantly better than the forward Bournemouth have sold)
    Feghouli (who was actually starting to settle and play well for us)

    And yet Bournemouth can get up to £25m for Mings having played less that 20 times in the 3.5 seasons he was with them?

    Bournemouth probably got as much for Mings as we got for Cheikh, Edmilson, Feghouli and Enner combined
  • LukerzLukerz
    It is certainly something we need to look at.

    I think it is more a reflection of us wanting rid of players than clubs wanting them. That normally dictates the price. Villa WANTED Mings badly as he had just helped them with their promotion to the Championship. Bournemouth probably would have been open to keeping him as he never really had a massive chance to stake a claim at the club. As a result of both of those things, they got £25m for him. Same goes for Mousset. He is still youngish, Bournemouth were probably happy to retain him, Sheffield United wanted him as a striker with some form of top level experience & also in their price range. Result is they paid what they did.

    But I do agree that Byram for £750k, regardless of injuries, is very low. You can’t even use the injuries as a massive reason because Norwich were still prepared to buy him. So if their justification for the low bid was ‘well he has been crocked a lot’, you could almost say ‘well why do you want him then’?

    I suppose the answer is good recruitment. Get better at it. To be fair, of all the players we have signed under Pelle, probably only Sanchez & Yarmolenko we would struggle to make a reasonable fee on, & I think most still see Yarmolenko as a good player.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    edited July 2019
    We still need to be better when we sell and indeed in dealing with players who want out

    Compare

    Mahrez - Leicester did not cave in and eventually received a large fee at the end
    VVD - Southampton did not cave in and received a large fee at the end

    Both players had thrown a strop.

    Payet - West Ham cave in
    Arnie - West Ham cave in (twice)
  • WHU_Champo_league_in_7_yearsWHU_Champo_league_in_7_years
    I agree we are pretty poor at getting market accurate fees

    Everton didnt budge on their valuation of Lukaku and got £75mil.....Nor did they with Stones

    Leicester didnt budge on Mahrez and are not on Maguire either

    Southampton managed to get a lot of money for VVD, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, Mane

    Palace just got £50mil for a player who's only just had his first proper season, not to mention they are not budging on a price for Zaha

    Obviously circumstances affect fee e.g. age, home grown status & the need for the selling club

    But a combined £45mil for Arnie & Payet is an awful deal for us, we could've got about double that

  • yoyoyoyo
    edited July 2019
    Mykola Shaparenko eyed by Arsenal and Manchester United as West Ham also show interest in Ukraine international.He wears Dynamo’s No 10 shirt and operates mostly in attacking midfield, although he occasionally plays further forward. (Caught Offside).
    .
    Also SKY reporting :

    West Ham are interested in Monaco defender Djibril Sidibe, according to French outlet L'Equipe.

    The World Cup winning right-back is said to cost the Hammers around €15m.

  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    We can imagine whatever price we like for a player is the right one, but it is simple market forces that determine what we, or any club, get.

    To counter the negativity: apparently Man Utd offered £45m for Diop and were laughed off. The door was also very firmly shut on the possibility of Rice being available.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    yoyo said:

    Mykola Shaparenko and Monaco defender Djibril Sidibe, according to French outlet L'Equipe.


    That brings us up to 89. :wahoo:

    I feel quietly confident of getting to 100.....
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years said:



    Obviously circumstances affect fee e.g. age, home grown status & the need for the selling club



    not forgetting the deep pockets of the buying club!

    Those examples given in the previous few posts.... the buying clubs were Man City, Man U and Liverpool.
  • alderzalderz
    Lukaku, Stones, van Dijk and Mahrez all continues to be available for and perform for their clubs. I think that’s the difference between them and Payer & Arnie.

    Maybe we need to not buy divas
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited July 2019
    And on the other side - how are Southampton fans feeling now?

    'Yay, we sell our best players for big money' :hmm:


  • AdamAdam
    Mainz who bought Fernandes, have a record transfer fee of a whopping £9m! Fernandes was their joint second highest transfer fee. I’m sure if other premier league clubs were in for him, we could have got more, but they weren’t. And we wanted to sell to use the funds for other purchases.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    edited July 2019
    MrsGrey said:

    And on the other side - how are Southampton fans feeling now?

    'Yay, we sell our best players for big money' :hmm:


    Yes but that is their business model. Newcastle’s is to not sign players around 30 as they cannot be sold on, and be happy to yo yo between Prem and champ.

    It still remains to be seen what ours truly is. Is it really Champs league football as was mooted early in our owners reign?

    Because in the Payet season that was (remarkably) within reach. And we got Eminike in the Jan transfer window. And the window after we got Calleri et al.

    Maybe things are different since Pelle has arrived. But things need to move on at a pace on the pitch. If we don’t at least achieve a Europa place at the end of this season, Rice, Haller and Anderson will likely be gone. Poss Diop too. At which point we will need to pause and restart.
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    baracks_a_hammer said:

    OutcastLondoner said:

    It's a bad price but sometimes I also wonder why anyone would buy someone who has played so little.

    So we should also be asking ourselves that question re: Wilshere? A well documented injury record. We may not have paid a fee, but we were happy to give a three yet contract on huge wages?
    Tbh, the fans do ask ourselves that every time we sign that kind of player and we have a reputation for it. But it’s also rare that we actually buy those players - they tend to be free or on loan. So can’t expect to sell them for much ourselves.

    I think part of our problem is we well players who don’t work out for bad prices. Then we end up not getting good prices for the players who should get them because we try to hang on to them so we can build something.

    We’re probably underperforming in selling the solid players - not spectacular but who have done a job/who come out of their spell a bit better than when they came. But some of these sales going on (Mings) I really don’t get.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    C&H are running another article stating that the manager is happy with the squad and will only bring someone in if Hernandez goes.

    If this is true, we have lost two central midfielders (Fernandes and Obiang) and three strikers (Carroll, Perez and Arnautovic) and have replaced them with Fornals and Haller.

    Anyone else concerned by this? I know there's an argument that we have Wilshere and Yarmolenko that will be like new signings, but with their injury records does anyone expect them to be available for more than 50% of games this season?

    On paper, our strongest eleven (Fab/Fredericks/Masuaku/Diop/Balbuena/Rice/Wilshere/Fornals/Anderson/Yarmolenko/Haller) is good enough to compete for the top 7 IMO, but there's no way that we'll have the luck of Leicester in 2015/16 and Wolves last season and keep the majority of our squad fit all season. History suggests that we, more than any other team, need strength in depth if we're to compete in the top third of the league, and I don't think with Ogbonna, Sanchez and Hernandez are good enough for that.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    We never really had Fernandes. I don't see how you can count him as a 'loss'.
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    If Obiang leaves i expect a replacement otherwise Noble Rice Sanchez Wilshire isnt going to cut it...
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    MrsGrey said:

    We never really had Fernandes. I don't see how you can count him as a 'loss'.

    Well, he was a first team squad player and no longer is, so we've lost the option of playing him. Yes, you could argue that his place could be taken by Cullen, or Coventry, or Powell, but we know nothing of these players' abilities in the PL. I think Fernandes proved he could do a job and offered some dynamism in the midfield, which is something we're sorely lacking.

    Obviously he and Obiang didn't feature in Pellegrini's plans, which is fine, but I would've thought that Pellegrini would want to replace them with players that did.
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    edited July 2019
    But Fernandes was mainly played forwards of CM, and we have plenty of cover in those positions. The Record seem strong on the story we are after Paulinha, who would then be a direct replacement, and possible upgrade, on Obiang.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    If we genuinely are not signing any more players, then our season will be hugely reliant on two proven sick notes not actually being sick notes this season (Reid plus Wilshere)
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    baracks_a_hammer said:

    If we genuinely are not signing any more players, then our season will be hugely reliant on two proven sick notes not actually being sick notes this season (Reid plus Wilshere)

    It's more than that though. We'll be reliant on Rice and Haller staying fit as neither has adequate cover in the squad. Sanchez is Rice's cover, but he is nowhere near PL quality IMO, and Haller's deputies are Hernadez and Antonio, who either don't possess the physicality (Hernandez) or technical ability (Antonio) of the kind of striker that Pellegrini wants to play.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    OCS

    :ok:

    If Sánchez manages to even find his way into our match day squad, we already have a problem IMO
  • MarkNobleLocalHeroMarkNobleLocalHero
    Does Yarmolenko really have a bad injury record or is that statement made just because he was unlucky with ONE injury with us?

    I find this thread has a very pessimistic note about it now almost unreadable for me.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    It's a transfer speculation thread. The latest speculation is that we're not going to be making any more signings. I make no apology for feeling pessimistic about that. If we're to improve on last season I think we need to strengthen our squad more than two reserve keepers and two outfield players.

    Re Yarmolenko, I'm sure I've read he's done his Achilles twice now. Pellegrini himself described it as the worst injury a player can have, so if he has a weakness there then there's always a risk it'll go again.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    edited July 2019
    We have signed two back up keepers and it’s questionable as to whether either match up to Adrian (remains to be seen)

    We appear to have signed a v promising a/m, but arguably in one of our less critical positions

    And we have signed what looks like a top forward

    But that is it.

    We’ve lost Adrian, Arnie, AC and others plus about to lose Obiang now - all of whom were settled in the PL

    So if indeed that is us done and dusted, then yes I am worried - others may deem that to be pessimistic?

    And the return of Reid, Yarmo and Wilshere does not bridge that gap

    And the return of Sanchez makes it even worse
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    With the exception of Arnie, we have lost fringe players. The loss of Arnie, imo, is more than made up for by the signing of Haller.

    I can only imagine the horror on here if we had given AC a new contract, so let's not anyone pretend they see him as an actual loss. Same goes for Hugill. He wasn't even an option for most of last year.

    If you don't think a fit Reid, Wilshere and Yarmo > Obaing, Fernandes, Byram, that's up to you.
  • YeoldhammerYeoldhammer
    edited July 2019
    the problem is that though, "fit" i would wager a high bet like Andy Carroll 2 out of 3 of those will not play 20 games this season.

    Granted Reid is probably a back up player now and Yarmelenko will have Antonio on his heels all day long doesn't worry me as much.

    Wilshire though.... if Obiang is not replaced our default is Sanchez or Cullen if we keep him and neither look Premiership standard.
  • Cuz1Cuz1
    I like AC but put him in the dyer/ lunberg bracket to be honest
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    What I still don’t get is that from what we here, the pot doesn’t have much money left it in it for any more players

    So how on Earth were we proposing to get Gomez even before Arnie threw a strop? Because it is pretty clear we were after him before Arnie did what he did. Were we going to go for a cheeky Eur15m bid?

    It doesn’t stack up to me? Or was it that the club had already been planning to offload Arnie (as per his brother)
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited July 2019
    grey_til_I_dye said:

    With the exception of Arnie, we have lost fringe players. The loss of Arnie, imo, is more than made up for by the signing of Haller.

    I can only imagine the horror on here if we had given AC a new contract, so let's not anyone pretend they see him as an actual loss. Same goes for Hugill. He wasn't even an option for most of last year.

    If you don't think a fit Reid, Wilshere and Yarmo > Obaing, Fernandes, Byram, that's up to you.

    At best then we're standing still. I agree that losing Carroll and Hugill is no loss, but we haven't replaced them with anyone better (or at all). I'm sure originally we were targeting a top class striker to compliment Arnie rather than to replace him, but now it seems that Haller is it.
    grey_til_I_dye said:

    If you don't think a fit Reid, Wilshere and Yarmo > Obaing, Fernandes, Byram, that's up to you.

    Comparing those six players doesn't really work as they play in different positions, but I take your point. However, as baracks says, if we're relying on Reid and Wilshere to stay fit for the majority of the season then I think we're being very naive.
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