Transfer rumours and speculation to take us through to summer.

grey_til_I_dye

Antonio's last 4 seasons for comparison



So, essentailly, Zaha is a rich man's Antonio...

Expat_Hammer

IronHerb said:

Then that begs the question as to why hasn't anyone offered to buy Antonio? :hmm:

Because they haven't analysed the stats

IronHerb

Or perhaps they have.

grey_til_I_dye

I think the begged question is rather:

Why all the fuss about Zaha?

He's obviously far ahead of Antonio in terms of technique, but in terms of making telling contributions either Zaha is average PL standard, or Antonio is vastly underrated.

baracks_a_hammer

I am a massive Antonio fan, but for me, any comparison between he and Zaha is, well, :hmm:

Zaha is comfortably ahead, all IMO of course

Yeoldhammer

West Ham / Everton / Leicester / Wolves all look top heavy. I think the team who defends the best will end up top of the pile. I think all 4 teams will comfortably score a few

ianbishoplegend

Antonio has always been underrated. Bilic signed two players for his position in his second season, and he still came out on top. Stats also don’t show how either of them relieved pressure with runs, creates chances through their broken down attacks and generally caused the other teams problems all day. If we use stats alone then Chicha is up there, and he spends half that game on the floor holding his ankles. Zaha has carried Palace for 3 seasons, they will be lost without him.

grey_til_I_dye

baracks

It depends what you choose as your measures.

Based on goals and assists per PL game minutes, they are very similar.

You can dismiss that if you like, but I can't think of a more significant measure for a forward MF player.

Zaha makes his impact through fancy Dan footwork, Antonio by bulldozing runs.

Aesthetically, you may prefer one over the other, but their impact over mins per game is remarkably similar.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

I agree Zaha is comfortably ahead of Antonio, because he is a constant threat and requires a lot of concentration and attention from defenders, which opens up space elsewhere. He also (not always fairly) wins lots of free-kicks and penalties in addition to his goals and assists.

However, I don’t think Zaha is so good that he potentially lifts Everton into top 6/top 4 contention.

OldCastleSwift

Ooooooooooooooh....

Slacker

Don’t go to b..............zzzzzzz

Yeoldhammer

My bet is potentially Xande Silva or Diangana goes on loan to fit in one more. Cullen must be getting sold i imagine to ?

McHammer

Ex advising we have a rep watching Brugge v Kiev tonight

IronHerb

Silva is out for another couple of months so won't be going out on loan.

OutcastLondoner

I don't think there are many players in the PL who require defenders to focus so much on defending against them as Zaha. That's a contribution that isn't reflected in goal or assists stats (and 10 assists isn't bad when you look at the strikers he's been working with).

grey_til_I_dye

I haven't suggested Zaha, or his contribution, is bad.

It seems to me 'makes the defenders work' is both subjective and hard to assess the value of even if true.

ianbishoplegend

Play pro footie in defense, and you will quickly assess that type of value.

ASLEFshrugged

For all his skill Zaha is still a diving cheat with an attitude problem who picks up needless yellow cards.

If he were ever to pull on a West Ham shirt I would stop watching.

baracks_a_hammer

Wow, that is a somewhat extreme reaction IMO

Hamstew

I think he's decent. Carries a pretty much hopeless Palace side every season.

whupathman

So palace blunts and barcodes down, job done

Hamstew

I can't see Norwich staying up.

grey_til_I_dye

ianbishoplegend said:

Play pro footie in defense, and you will quickly assess that type of value.

But since none of us will, that is an assertion, rather than an assessment, and rather proves my point.

For those only half reading the previous comments (fair enough, of course, busy, busy...), no one has said Zaha is anything other than a decent player, who on his day can be excellent. Some have gone beyond that, and that is where the discussion has come from.

ASLEFshrugged

Sorry but Zaha is a nasty piece of work, he goes down far too easily, if the ref doesn't give a foul for the slightest touch on him he throws a tantrum like a sulky teenager and occasionally he'll retaliate with a stupid foul that gets him a yellow card.

I'd rather have Payet back than Zaha.
I'd rather have Arnie back than Zaha.
I'd rather have Ince back than Zaha.

IronHerb

Oh dear!

Hamstew

Grey I don't care what you say I think he's decent.

grey_til_I_dye

:weep:

:biggrin:

Lukerz

Was thinking about Pellegrini's way of going about defending, which doesn't appear the conventional way of beefing up the CB's & the CM's. One defender signed this summer, none have left from the first team &, as yet, no CM or DM to beef up the centre. He seems happy to go with four No.10's in the middle with one holding player & a back four.

So he clearly wants to build us as 1) a ball playing side, one which doesn't often lose the ball & need to defend, & 2) a side who squeezes the pitch, with the use of the closing down from the four of the midfield whilst Rice sits & the high defensive side. You could see a lot from Saturday once the game settled down that Fornals, Anderson & Lanzini did plenty of chasing & hurrying, WIlshere often joined in too, whilst Rice stayed in a more fixed position & the back four squeezed so when the opposition got the ball forward from one of our attacking break-downs, Diop was so close on the striker that he basically ended up being unable to control it. So it is a good way of maintaining pressure.

But it is a really risky way of playing. Don't get me wrong, I love watching a side that prioritises attacking & it is far better than the days of 11 men behind the ball. But it will look ugly at times, like we are being cut apart at walking pace. Once teams beat the press & get through quickly, they will be at the back four. Obviously they have to be good enough to pass through us quickly. City will, Newcastle probably won't etc.

But Pelle seems committed to it.

Lukerz

Ex expects the Ajeti deal to be completed today.

Hammerdublin

Hope he is good enough. I've never seen him play.