Summer 2017 Transfer Speculation (continued)

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Comments

  • So all our conceded goals came through the CB's?
  • Need another Striker unless Martinez is making the step up.
  • I would love someone luke Oriol Rome u but given how much they value VVD can't see him coming for less than £40mil

    Would have taken Chalobah and Fernado for £5mil but too late now
  • Lukerz said:

    Telegraph reports Leicester are signing Iheanacho with a £50m buy back clause.

    I think this is despicable. Once you have sold a player you should no longer have anything to do with him or what he does. To sell a player but say we WILL have him back if we give you £50m is outrageous, it smacks of third party interference imho.
  • I don't have a problem if the selling club put in a clause that says they can have first refusal if the buying club wish to sell him at a later date.
  • edited August 2017
    But I don't think that's what's happening Preston. I get the feeling it's Man City saying they'll buy him back at £50m if they want to, irrespective of whether Leicester want to sell.
  • edited August 2017

    But I don't think that's what's happening Preston. I get the feeling it's Man City saying they'll buy him back at £50m if they want to, irrespective of whether Leicester want to sell.

    Sorry, Preston, I realise now you weren't suggesting that what Man City's agreement was first refusal ;ok
  • I feel like I've said this a number of times recently, but wishing for new signings every time there is an ever so slight (in your personal opinion) gap in the squad is basically saying you don't want youth to come through. Anyone wanting a new CB this summer seriously better not consider bemoaning the fact that Declan Rice won't break through.

    I don't think we NEED in any position. However, I feel we are light up front, and at DM, but absolutely nowhere else in the squad. I would like to think Rice & Martinez would be able to step into the breach should there ever be that need as the season progresses.

    Obviously, if someone comes onto the market that is better than what we already have in our first XI, and we can afford them, then I would expect us to be in for them. However, I really, really don't understand why anyone would want us to chase back up signings after spending all of last year critcising the club for making back up signings.
  • edited August 2017
    Not back up signings.

    We need a new starting CM. Someone to come into the side who can be disciplined in that role (with defensive qualities).

    We need another starting striker. Somebody to compete with Chicharito and give us options up top. I accept though that you could say "we have Chica, Carroll, Sakho, Antonio, Ayew and Martinez". For me that really reads as "we have Chica and Martinez".

    Even if you felt we COULD rely on youth, now both Cullen and Fletcher have gone, we need more options to push the starting XI. It's too comfy for certain players. Noble and Kouyate for example. Nailed on starters for the past 3 years.

    I'm happy for Rice to be an emergency DM/CB this season, and Martinez to be a striker option. But they shouldn't be pressured into producing the goods when they aren't ready.

    We are OK in goal, OK at full-back and I suppose OK at CB. We have wide players too when all fit (Antonio, Snodgrass, Arnautovic and Ayew), but we seriously lack in CM, AM (so an alternative to Lanzini) and striker (we aren't seriously relying on Sakho and Carroll AGAIN).

    We don't have neverending cash. I know. But we've spent around £36m on transfer fees this summer and recouped a lot in sales. I know it's not that easy, but if the Dave's could stretch to a couple more players, that would set us up nicely.

    I've always felt you have to reinforce every position each summer to keep things fresh and people on their toes. We've added a keeper, a full-back, a winger and a striker. I'd like a CM. I know signing a CB may be counter-productive as we have four plus Kouyate plus Rice, Burke and Oxford.
  • edited August 2017
    Lukerz, fair enough that you want a a better CM to come in. However, realistically we do not play enough games to keep 4 experienced CM pros happy if we persist with starting 2 per game (which seems likely, 4231 or 3421 seem the best for us) - Nordtveit left apparently because we weren't giving him enough matches (played 15, and most at his less preferred positions of RB, CB, or part match from the bench), thereby which CM of our three do you want to leave to have a better one come in?
  • edited August 2017
    To be honest all three can be massively upgraded on. ;ok

    Obiang is the main one worth keeping in the XI. The other two struggled badly last season.

    Not sure how that justifies a vote of confidence like signing nobody else the summer after.
  • edited August 2017
    I agree our three CM's are not the three best CM's in the world! All three could be bettered of course. However, my question was which of the three would you be happy letting go for a better one to come in this summer (on the presumption we can only bring in / replace one this summer)?
  • edited August 2017
    The way I look at it is last season we were a shambles defensively, and that's the whole side. Not just the CB's as I referenced earlier, but the keepers being off form, the CB's chopping and changing, Cresswell's injury then form, Arbeloa, Byram, Antonio, Nordtveit and Kouyate all playing RB, the midfielders (other than Obiang) were badly out of form, we had a LW who couldn't be bothered, right wingers who just couldn't put in performances and then we had a striker who didn't run, a striker who did run but didn't score and then a striker who didn't run but did score before being injured.

    As a unit, we were so disjointed.

    Slav has obviously tried addressing this by signing a better keeper and a leader in Hart and an experienced professional RB in Zabaleta, replacing the experienced professional RB we had last season in Arbeloa. I'm not 100% convinced those two are going to transform our defensive abilities without support in midfield shielding the back four. Obiang is not a DM. I think he's actually a box to box midfielder because he actually has an eye for a pass. Which means we have to convert Noble or Kouyate into a proper DM and so far neither of them have been capable of doing it consistently. So, for me, that means we upgrade on them and let one go unless they want to fight for their place. At the minute the 4th choice CM is Rice. Fernandes, from what I've seen, isn't suited to a CM position in a two, but could maybe do well in a 3 or behind the striker.

    Hart/Adrian
    Zabaleta/Byram - Reid/Collins - Ogbonna/Fonte - Cresswell/Masuaku
    Noble/Rice - Obiang/Kouyate
    Antonio/Snodgrass - Lanzini/Fernandes - Arnautovic/Ayew
    Chicharito/Sakho/Carroll
  • Lukerz, whilst I think your first para is a little over strong on the condemnation (we finished 11th, one point from 8th, so hardly a disastrous season), I do concur our overall unit was disjointed and our play (both defensively and offensively) was not as good as our players could have achieved. I personally think Obiang can do a job as one of a two man back CM's, in the 'Carrick' style mould rather than the 'Makalele', but certainly not as a one-man DCM. I also agree on your point the other day about either Ogbonna or Fonte really needing to step up this season as both were disappointing last season IMO, but I would give them both a chance this season. Reid obviously easily our best CB. I also agree Fernandes best position is ACM, so potentially our back up to Lanz solved, ish? In honesty, that squad you have posted is decent and provides options across the board, I would not be disappointed if this is how we go into the coming season (Martinez as a further CF back-up, has looked alright pre-season, also has Feghouli actually left yet? Would still like him to stay personally, and if necessary Snodgrass go, he just can't seem to fit in with our squad).

    P.s. you still haven't fully answered my admittedly heavily hypothetical question. You said keep Obiang, but if one of Noble and Kouyate had to leave in order to bring in another CM, who of the two goes for you in preference?
  • Florin - I'd like to keep all four. Noble, Obiang, Kouyate and a new CM. The one to go will be the one who doesn't want to not be a nailed on starter. So probably Kouyate. But don't think it would be a certainty if we signed a new one then one of the current clan would go. ;ok
  • The team is defensively woeful because the defence falters at the front line, hopefully Chicarito will do what Sakho did for us and actually pressure defenders across the back 4 and make the opposition think quickly than give them all the time in the world to make the pass they want. Carroll great at countering set plays and roughing up defenders but wasn't a ball chaser.

    We also have Lanzini not a great tackler / Arnie who Stoke fans said was never one to track back much and Ayew again not a great tackler.

    Antonio is probably the only midfielder we have that actually works the whole wing and at least will help out the RB.

    We then have Kouyate and Noble, one who wants to push forward consistently leaving exposed gaps behind and one who likes to give a free kick exactly 25 yards just outside the Penalty box.

    Obiang is the only actual decent tackler in our entire midfield.
  • We aren't a good enough side to keep four good CMs happy with only two spots to fill.

    If you're in all the cups and Europe, players will stick around. Otherwise, they'll want out, and potentially cause a poisonous atmosphere.

    We went scattergun last summer and it worked out pretty badly. I'm happy with signing a few first-teamers and not upheaving the whole squad again.
  • Yeold - and even Obiang is often hopelessly caught out positionally so that the oppo get in behind him and he has to chase back or make a tackle, often resulting in a foul.
  • The way I see it is you either have a very disciplined cdm who just sits in front of the back four braking the play up and giving it to someone to create or you have two players in one who does the box to box bit as well. Which makes us not getting Kante a few years back hard to take. ;weep
  • Yes, but he'd have left for Chelsea too...

    A bit like having Gloria Estefan's song "Oye Mi Canto", translating it into East End vernacular "Oi! My Kante!" Then having to give it back ;whistle
  • Luckily I rate Charlie Nicholas's opinion on football about as highly as I rate Donald Trump's on hairstyling.
  • Interesting views

    I understand the points he makes about Fonte and Snodgrass but January signings are more volatile in regards to hitting the ground running and with all due respect Arnie, Hernandez, Hart and Zabaleta are just plain and simple higher calibre players to Fonte and Snodgrass

    In regards to DM I think when you look at Obiang and Kouyate you think either could be a real DM but 2/3 years after they arrived they are still primarily box-to-box midfielders

    Thy are big, imposing and athletic players but I think they lack positional discipline, particularly Kouyate who bombs forward leaving huge gaps

    Think Obiang can be that guy as he makes good interceptions and is actually a pretty smart tackler (with the attacker in front of him less so when chasing back) and is the superior passers so hopefully won't be caught out when instigating attacks

    But Kouyate needs to be more disciplined and help out as there is too much work (and actual pitch areas) for only Obiang to manage

    Noble for me can't do it, he lacks the necessary physical attributes and think he's just too rash a tackler

    If Slaven can hone Obiang and Kouyate to being strictly defensive midfielders who 'occasionally' run forward it will solve our problem

    This is all theoretical obviously and I feel given the lack of defensive nous the coaching staff seem to have then Kouyate and Obiang will perform the same way and will leave us exposed

    If they don't adapt or we don't bring in a DM I honestly think the only way forward is 3 at the back which will limit us offensively but will at least help us stop conceeding so many which was last year's main problem

  • edited August 2017
    They wanted to challenge the top six but they ended up closer to the bottom three
    11trh = 5 away from 6th, 6 away from 17th.

    #justsayin
  • grey - whilst I generally don't agree with most of what Mr Nicholas garbles out, it depends on what measure he decided to use. If going by points, we were 11 off 18th and 24 off 6th. Of course, just as notable is that we were 1 point off 8th too. He's still a plonker mind.
  • Would never have happened in bfs 's time... ... *runs away* ;puzzled ;sub
  • I thought I had read that Galatassary confirmed Feghouli a few days ago. Why have we not announced anything?
  • edited August 2017
    McHammer said:

    I thought I had read that Galatassary confirmed Feghouli a few days ago. Why have we not announced anything?

    It appears (if what you read in the press is true) that there is wrangling over the money between the 2 clubs. We agreed a signing-on fee (to be paid over 3 years) when he joined and there's some debate over whether the 2 remaining years' worth is due. And, should it be the case that we have to pay it, whether or not we can negotiate the selling fee to be big enough to still give us the profit we want.
  • Jose Ignacio Peleteiro Ramallo ( Jota ) being mentioned
    again on Sky.....Brentford to West Ham
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