Summer 2017 Transfer Speculation (continued)

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Wouldn't swap Hernandez for Iheanacho in a million years, anyway.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Neither would I but I'd have Hernandez AND iheanacho any day of the week

Hernandez probably won't get us any sell on value now whereas £50mil for iheanacho (if he reaches those heights) is loads to reinvest into the squad

Lukerz

Just can't help but feel squad is light.

Vorselaarhammer

I hope a DM is now top of the shopping list...

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Yea I agree, the word "light" is a good description of our midfield atm

We need a strong DM who is also athletic and can move about well (Like gueye at everton) and a back up striker if we intend to loan out Martinez

Would also like a new CB but on paper we should be deep enough to cope....I'm just not a huge fan of Fonte, Ogbonna or Collins

Lukerz

We need a CB. Ogbonna has never 100% convinced me. Fonte and Collins lack pace.

Adrian showed yesterday exactly why we've signed Hart.

We need a CM and we need competition for Lanzini should he be unavailable. Let's be honest he's a hot and cold player anyway.

That's 3 players.

Not to mention the other striker I feel we still need.

We're going to OT with Martinez as our only fully fit striker.

grey_til_I_dye

Lukerz

Whilst I'm not ITK, I can confidently predict we won't be getting a CB this window (unless one leaves.)

It isn't that we 'need' these players, it's just that you don't fancy the ones we've got.

Fair enough, but I don't think Slav shares your PoV.

OldCastleSwift

Ogbonna and Reid have long-term contracts so I expect they'll be our No1 centre back pairing. Fonte and Collins will be the back-ups, and I suspect Rice has done enough to be the 5th choice, so I can't see any CBs coming in either.

I do think we need a CM and a striker (three have been moved on and two of our current crop are rarely fit), and I also think we're a winger light (particularly as I fully expect Snodgrass to go before the month's out).

Lukerz

grey_til_I_dye said:

Lukerz

Whilst I'm not ITK, I can confidently predict we won't be getting a CB this window (unless one leaves.)

It isn't that we 'need' these players, it's just that you don't fancy the ones we've got.

Fair enough, but I don't think Slav shares your PoV.

But I don't get this as an approach if the options aren't good enough? It's basically saying "we have four CB's and so need no more". What if all four were League One standard? I know they aren't but you see my point?

Reid is far and away our best CB. Collins and Ogbonna have played regularly under Slav since his arrival and we've always conceded a load of goals. Fonte was signed last January and, again, defence was leaky. Granted we did improve in the final 6 games of the season, defensively. But I do think CB is the least priority position. If we went with what we have, I'd be ok with that.

grey_til_I_dye

if the options aren't good enough

I didn't say they weren't, you did.

I said I don't think Slav agrees with your assessment.

IronHerb

So all our conceded goals came through the CB's?

Yeoldhammer

Need another Striker unless Martinez is making the step up.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

I would love someone luke Oriol Rome u but given how much they value VVD can't see him coming for less than £40mil

Would have taken Chalobah and Fernado for £5mil but too late now

SuzanneClaret

Lukerz said:

Telegraph reports Leicester are signing Iheanacho with a £50m buy back clause.

I think this is despicable. Once you have sold a player you should no longer have anything to do with him or what he does. To sell a player but say we WILL have him back if we give you £50m is outrageous, it smacks of third party interference imho.

PrestonHammer

I don't have a problem if the selling club put in a clause that says they can have first refusal if the buying club wish to sell him at a later date.

OldCastleSwift

But I don't think that's what's happening Preston. I get the feeling it's Man City saying they'll buy him back at £50m if they want to, irrespective of whether Leicester want to sell.

OldCastleSwift

OldCastleSwift said:

But I don't think that's what's happening Preston. I get the feeling it's Man City saying they'll buy him back at £50m if they want to, irrespective of whether Leicester want to sell.

Sorry, Preston, I realise now you weren't suggesting that what Man City's agreement was first refusal ;ok

alderz

I feel like I've said this a number of times recently, but wishing for new signings every time there is an ever so slight (in your personal opinion) gap in the squad is basically saying you don't want youth to come through. Anyone wanting a new CB this summer seriously better not consider bemoaning the fact that Declan Rice won't break through.

I don't think we NEED in any position. However, I feel we are light up front, and at DM, but absolutely nowhere else in the squad. I would like to think Rice & Martinez would be able to step into the breach should there ever be that need as the season progresses.

Obviously, if someone comes onto the market that is better than what we already have in our first XI, and we can afford them, then I would expect us to be in for them. However, I really, really don't understand why anyone would want us to chase back up signings after spending all of last year critcising the club for making back up signings.

Lukerz

Not back up signings.

We need a new starting CM. Someone to come into the side who can be disciplined in that role (with defensive qualities).

We need another starting striker. Somebody to compete with Chicharito and give us options up top. I accept though that you could say "we have Chica, Carroll, Sakho, Antonio, Ayew and Martinez". For me that really reads as "we have Chica and Martinez".

Even if you felt we COULD rely on youth, now both Cullen and Fletcher have gone, we need more options to push the starting XI. It's too comfy for certain players. Noble and Kouyate for example. Nailed on starters for the past 3 years.

I'm happy for Rice to be an emergency DM/CB this season, and Martinez to be a striker option. But they shouldn't be pressured into producing the goods when they aren't ready.

We are OK in goal, OK at full-back and I suppose OK at CB. We have wide players too when all fit (Antonio, Snodgrass, Arnautovic and Ayew), but we seriously lack in CM, AM (so an alternative to Lanzini) and striker (we aren't seriously relying on Sakho and Carroll AGAIN).

We don't have neverending cash. I know. But we've spent around £36m on transfer fees this summer and recouped a lot in sales. I know it's not that easy, but if the Dave's could stretch to a couple more players, that would set us up nicely.

I've always felt you have to reinforce every position each summer to keep things fresh and people on their toes. We've added a keeper, a full-back, a winger and a striker. I'd like a CM. I know signing a CB may be counter-productive as we have four plus Kouyate plus Rice, Burke and Oxford.

FlorinRaduclious

Lukerz, fair enough that you want a a better CM to come in. However, realistically we do not play enough games to keep 4 experienced CM pros happy if we persist with starting 2 per game (which seems likely, 4231 or 3421 seem the best for us) - Nordtveit left apparently because we weren't giving him enough matches (played 15, and most at his less preferred positions of RB, CB, or part match from the bench), thereby which CM of our three do you want to leave to have a better one come in?

Lukerz

To be honest all three can be massively upgraded on. ;ok

Obiang is the main one worth keeping in the XI. The other two struggled badly last season.

Not sure how that justifies a vote of confidence like signing nobody else the summer after.

FlorinRaduclious

I agree our three CM's are not the three best CM's in the world! All three could be bettered of course. However, my question was which of the three would you be happy letting go for a better one to come in this summer (on the presumption we can only bring in / replace one this summer)?

Lukerz

The way I look at it is last season we were a shambles defensively, and that's the whole side. Not just the CB's as I referenced earlier, but the keepers being off form, the CB's chopping and changing, Cresswell's injury then form, Arbeloa, Byram, Antonio, Nordtveit and Kouyate all playing RB, the midfielders (other than Obiang) were badly out of form, we had a LW who couldn't be bothered, right wingers who just couldn't put in performances and then we had a striker who didn't run, a striker who did run but didn't score and then a striker who didn't run but did score before being injured.

As a unit, we were so disjointed.

Slav has obviously tried addressing this by signing a better keeper and a leader in Hart and an experienced professional RB in Zabaleta, replacing the experienced professional RB we had last season in Arbeloa. I'm not 100% convinced those two are going to transform our defensive abilities without support in midfield shielding the back four. Obiang is not a DM. I think he's actually a box to box midfielder because he actually has an eye for a pass. Which means we have to convert Noble or Kouyate into a proper DM and so far neither of them have been capable of doing it consistently. So, for me, that means we upgrade on them and let one go unless they want to fight for their place. At the minute the 4th choice CM is Rice. Fernandes, from what I've seen, isn't suited to a CM position in a two, but could maybe do well in a 3 or behind the striker.

Hart/Adrian
Zabaleta/Byram - Reid/Collins - Ogbonna/Fonte - Cresswell/Masuaku
Noble/Rice - Obiang/Kouyate
Antonio/Snodgrass - Lanzini/Fernandes - Arnautovic/Ayew
Chicharito/Sakho/Carroll

FlorinRaduclious

Lukerz, whilst I think your first para is a little over strong on the condemnation (we finished 11th, one point from 8th, so hardly a disastrous season), I do concur our overall unit was disjointed and our play (both defensively and offensively) was not as good as our players could have achieved. I personally think Obiang can do a job as one of a two man back CM's, in the 'Carrick' style mould rather than the 'Makalele', but certainly not as a one-man DCM. I also agree on your point the other day about either Ogbonna or Fonte really needing to step up this season as both were disappointing last season IMO, but I would give them both a chance this season. Reid obviously easily our best CB. I also agree Fernandes best position is ACM, so potentially our back up to Lanz solved, ish? In honesty, that squad you have posted is decent and provides options across the board, I would not be disappointed if this is how we go into the coming season (Martinez as a further CF back-up, has looked alright pre-season, also has Feghouli actually left yet? Would still like him to stay personally, and if necessary Snodgrass go, he just can't seem to fit in with our squad).

P.s. you still haven't fully answered my admittedly heavily hypothetical question. You said keep Obiang, but if one of Noble and Kouyate had to leave in order to bring in another CM, who of the two goes for you in preference?

Lukerz

Florin - I'd like to keep all four. Noble, Obiang, Kouyate and a new CM. The one to go will be the one who doesn't want to not be a nailed on starter. So probably Kouyate. But don't think it would be a certainty if we signed a new one then one of the current clan would go. ;ok

Yeoldhammer

The team is defensively woeful because the defence falters at the front line, hopefully Chicarito will do what Sakho did for us and actually pressure defenders across the back 4 and make the opposition think quickly than give them all the time in the world to make the pass they want. Carroll great at countering set plays and roughing up defenders but wasn't a ball chaser.

We also have Lanzini not a great tackler / Arnie who Stoke fans said was never one to track back much and Ayew again not a great tackler.

Antonio is probably the only midfielder we have that actually works the whole wing and at least will help out the RB.

We then have Kouyate and Noble, one who wants to push forward consistently leaving exposed gaps behind and one who likes to give a free kick exactly 25 yards just outside the Penalty box.

Obiang is the only actual decent tackler in our entire midfield.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

We aren't a good enough side to keep four good CMs happy with only two spots to fill.

If you're in all the cups and Europe, players will stick around. Otherwise, they'll want out, and potentially cause a poisonous atmosphere.

We went scattergun last summer and it worked out pretty badly. I'm happy with signing a few first-teamers and not upheaving the whole squad again.

Lukerz

Yeold - and even Obiang is often hopelessly caught out positionally so that the oppo get in behind him and he has to chase back or make a tackle, often resulting in a foul.

Fortuneseeker

The way I see it is you either have a very disciplined cdm who just sits in front of the back four braking the play up and giving it to someone to create or you have two players in one who does the box to box bit as well. Which makes us not getting Kante a few years back hard to take. ;weep

Bazshuayi

Yes, but he'd have left for Chelsea too...

A bit like having Gloria Estefan's song "Oye Mi Canto", translating it into East End vernacular "Oi! My Kante!" Then having to give it back ;whistle