The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50

1…4546485051…79

Comments

  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    This is very illuminating and near the bottom, there is a possible explanation of why there has been more racist behaviour.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
  • simoncsimonc
    Mrs G their aims unfortunatly are not reflected in their name or their actions
  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    If there has been such a monumental rise in racist behaviour, why hasn't there or why isn't there much more reporting on it? There were various reports for about the first few days after the vote but then nothing. Racism has always existed, every race is as equally racist to each other and that has nothing to do with Brexit.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited August 2016
    If there has been such a monumental rise in racist behaviour, why hasn't there or why isn't there much more reporting on it?
    Preston, the lack of reports in the press can in no way be taken as evidence that it doesn't exist, in my view.

    Their agenda for what they publish is set by what will sell more papers or get more hits.

    So if you want me to believe there hasn't been a rise (not sure anyone said it was 'monumental') you'll need some other evidence.

    And we aren't talking about racism, but racist behaviour, as you mention.
  • PrestonHammerPrestonHammer
    I haven't denied that it exists, I am saying that it existed long before the Brexit vote, therefore you can't blame it all on Brexit.

    http://www.westbriton.co.uk/why-are-you-still-here-we-voted-out-so-out-you-ing-go-brexit-race-hate-incidents-in-cornwall/story-29576748-detail/story.html

    NEoldiron, are you using the above as proof that racist behaviour has risen because of Brexit? I think you need to find another article as this doesn't actually proof anything.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited August 2016
    PrestonHammer said:

    I haven't denied that it exists, I am saying that it existed long before the Brexit vote, therefore you can't blame it all on Brexit.

    I wasn't blaming racism on it - I was blaming the sudden increase in people acting out their racism on it ;ok
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited August 2016
    PrestonHammer said:


    NEoldiron, are you using the above as proof that racist behaviour has risen because of Brexit? I think you need to find another article as this doesn't actually proof anything.

    Well, besides the few examples given in that article, it does include the following fact:

    Devon and Cornwall Police revealed that there has been a rise in the number of hate crimes being reported across the force area.

    They don't ascribe a cause. That might require more research and a bit of deduction....
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    edited August 2016
    MrsGrey deduction-is that like when they deduct NI and income tax? ;adkins

    Billy ;lol
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    There won't be many coats left the way you lot are going.
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Outcast, you can't have the last comment on both threads, so here's a little something. I know they're both Remainers but still.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/justin-madders/nhs-privatisation_b_11388948.html

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/chuka-umunna/vote-leave-watch-uk-economy_b_11294550.html
  • thornburyironthornburyiron
    And the huffington post is the USAs most extreme left wing publication.
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    ;nonono

    By what defniton of 'extreme left wing'?
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    edited August 2016
    MrsGrey said:

    ;nonono

    By what defniton of 'extreme left wing'?

    In the USA the Lib Dems would be rabid Marxists

  • chicagohammerchicagohammer
    edited August 2016
    Frankly, here in the USA - the fact that the Conservative party supports socialized medicine and gun control, those stances alone would classify them as liberal.

    Sad but true
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    From another extreme left wing source "the Institute for Financial Studies":

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37023488
  • grey_til_I_dyegrey_til_I_dye
    Did you?

    Once again proving how misinformed some Leavers were, I guess.
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Correction - Institute for Fiscal Studies. ;biggrin

    Pards, sadly many Leavers didn't take it seriously i.e. took it for a joke.
    Now look at the current and predicted future situation - not much to laugh about at the moment is there, not much of a joke. ;hmm
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Rather than bashing leavers continuously about being misinformed and stupid, how about a thought for those Remainers who, if the benefits of being in the EU were THAT great failed to make their points before the referendum? Instead they chose to bully everyone with threats if we left.
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    So I'm a bully now am I? ;hmm
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Didn't say you were herb
  • IronHerbIronHerb
    Remainers & Instead they chose to bully everyone with threats if we left.

    Certainly reads that way.
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    I said THOSE Remainers not ALL remainers
  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    Baracks, still happy to have voted Leave?

    What was your particular reason to vote leave, a few examples:
    Border controls,
    Money for NHS,
    Courts can't deport criminals because of human rights.

    But what's this about bullying and threats, that's the language of Farage and co, or do you mean warnings of the consequences of leaving?
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    NE

    Yes I 100% am

    And I'll give you a couple of examples of what I consider to be bullying threats from pretty influential people

    Gideon - exit = emergency budget and tax rises

    Obama - back of the queue

    By the way, I hail from Coventry - a city which had a booming car industry ripped away from it to other countries, all witihn the EU days. So perhaps it might be possible to empathise slightly with people who have lived and born the brunt of things like this if they chose not to put their X in the remain box?
  • MrsGreyMrsGrey
    edited August 2016
    ;hmm I don't think you are going to get your car industry back, though.

    And it might fairly be said, on the other side, ' perhaps it might be possible to empathise slightly with people who have ... had the opportunities and social and economic benefits of being in the EU and are now going to have those ripped away from them and will be bearing the brunt of exiters choosing not to put their X in the remain box?


    --

    My point being, I feel it is a mistake (just my opinion, mind) not to look at the bigger picture (which is what your car industry' comment sounds like).
  • baracks_a_hammerbaracks_a_hammer
    Still doesn't mean people from Coventry, for example should be persecuted for voting leave (if they chose to do so)
  • Tomw85Tomw85
    NE just a quick note on one of your earlier posts about the NHS - as a previous Tory and leave voter I would be furious if they do try to privatise/break down the NHS so fully agree with you on that one. That being said I do also think that there is need for reform within the NHS given some of the crazy salaries that middle managers and temp/agency staff are reported to be on. In my opinion this would be better spent on more nurses and doctors.

    Anyways on to your most recent question - yes I would still vote leave (I didn't say happy as it was not a happy decision for me).

    So far the fallout from the vote is actually less than I expected. It was always going to be a turbulent time after the result and my decision was made with that in mind. My reasons for voting leave do not fall into your list, it was more to do with that I did not believe that in the long term it was right for us to remain in the EU which is constantly looking to extend its control/power over its member states.

    I am all for free trade, and even free movement of labour but for me these benefits were slowly being eroded by the direction that the EU is ultimately heading in. Rather than an EU based free trade and human/workers rights I would like to see a world wide set of standards set up to benefit all. However I do not believe that the EU will be able to achieve this and I think that there can be a more democratic way of achieving this in the future. That might be an idealistic view, but for me the I do believe it could be possible and as shown by the response of the remain voters there are many people out there that want to safe guard our future. You and I just have a different view on how we might be able to get there.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    edited August 2016
    NEoldiron said:

    Correction - Institute for Fiscal Studies. ;biggrin

    Pards, sadly many Leavers didn't take it seriously i.e. took it for a joke.
    Now look at the current and predicted future situation - not much to laugh about at the moment is there, not much of a joke. ;hmm

    Yes I voted leave because I didn`t really understand the complex issues involved, there was long words and fings that don`t really interest me like politics and economics and fings. I voted leave cos I thought it would be funny like a lot of me mates. ;lol ;biggrin ;lol ;biggrin ;lol I can barely type for laughing ;lol

  • NEoldironNEoldiron
    TW85

    "So far the fallout from the vote is actually less than I expected."
    I suggest you follow some of the links I've posted to see just how hard it is going to be just to get the economy back to where it was before the referendum.

    "Rather than an EU based free trade and human/workers rights I would like to see a world wide set of standards set up to benefit all."
    I think that place is called Utopia. As soon as you involve USA you can forget about workers' rights.

    "I am all for free trade, and even free movement of labour but for me these benefits were slowly being eroded by the direction that the EU is ultimately heading in."
    Firstly, so you agree then that free movement of labour is a benefit.
    Secondly, can you explain why you think these benefits are being eroded.
  • TheMadcapLaughsTheMadcapLaughs
    Sorry, to give my post a certain level of gravitas I forgot to put:

    ;hmm

    That`s better.
This discussion has been closed.