The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50
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Comments
I`d say the Brexit vote was pretty justified, can`t think of a much better reason myself....................
I don't think that since the result there are now more people who are racisit so my comment to you was then referring to the fact that I would rather know if my neighbour is/was a closest racist or not.
If you have any stats to prove officially that racism has increased then by all means post them.
I also took Herb's comment to mean that those who were racist before the referendum are still racist now, just more vocal about it so we know who they are.
Of course I should have said in my original post
"Summary - Economy down, display of racism up"
Just not quite as snappy.
And if you have any stats to prove officially that racism has NOT increased then by all means post them.
Personally, I disagree with this for several reasons.
1. I think racists SHOULD keep their horrible ideas to themselves.
2. Under the scenario you refer to, the price of your 'knowledge' is that racist beliefs have been acted on - which means that somewhere, there is someone who has been subjected to a racist comment or action. I don't think that price is worth paying, frankly.
(For the record, my opinion is that the vote hasn't created new racists, just encouraged existing ones.)
Stats prove it. ;ok
What is quite alarming is that the Met Police alone usually averages between 20 and 50 reports of hate crime a day. (It went up after the vote - I don't know if numbers have dropped back to their 'normal' levels as time has gone by.)
The main factor in hate crimes is, according to official sources, race.
And the police actually estimate that that 75% of race crimes are never reported (usually).
I am not able to prove that racism is down just as you are not able to prove it is up. I am just calling out sound bites as I thought that we had all had enough of them following the awful campaigning that was done. Maybe that is just me though...
Mrs Grey, I fully understand your point and when put like that I would rather not have someone suffer for the result of knowing that someone is a racist. My point was more of in a general scenario and not broken down to the individual who will suffer as a result.
However on other hand, if you offered someone who is unfortunate enough to suffer racist remarks/abuse if they would rather take a couple incidents and for the general public to rally round them and really show these bigots that it is not acceptable or tolerated or not suffer any direct incidents but always feel that there is an under current of ill feeling out there I would be interested to know what they would rather. If more people see racism and take a stand against it we may be able to make the world a better place. (I am not say that either are right or correct, but unfortunately the world we live in is not perfect)
Madcap - what do you have against train spotters?
Although (and referring back to the question you raise about whether victims would rather be victimised than not if a positive change could come out of it) since official estimates are that the huge majority of incidents aren't reported to the police, I'm not sure how much opprobrium actually results.
A interesting question might be - why don't people report it. (I suspect the answers are many and varied. But probably all equally depressing.)
I have seen the odd video on facebook where people rally round and stand up for the victim but all too often nothing is said or done when it happens.
But even with those caveats, it's not a cheering thought.
I was just clarifying the figure, in the context of our discussion about racism ;ok
- "Racism is not proven to be up, but acts/reporting of racism are."
How do you measure racism if not by the number of acts that are reported. Has there been a poll where people put their hands up and say "Yup, I'm a racist".?
The only way by which it can be measured surely IS by the acts, therefore, if the number of acts and their reporting has increased, is it not reasonable to say that racism has increased.
TW85
- "how exasperating it is to continually read your negative posts".
I would love to hear some good news about the situation so that I could have reason to be positive. Perhaps you could put up some links.
It is just as exasperating for me to continually read Brexiteer's criticism of Remainers being negative when there has not been, so far, anything to feel positive about.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
I don't think so.
Perhaps they were latent racists who weren't aware of the fact, but have been emboldened by Brexit.
My original point that racism is up would have been more accurate if, as I've already posted, I had said that incidents of racist behaviour are up.
So, correcting my original post:
Summary - Economy down, incidents of racist behaviour up.
I still think "Economy down, racism up" scans better.
A snip at
EQUATOR GLOBE BAR
£5,960.00
ADD TO BASKET
MADE TO ORDER.
ESTIMATED DELIVERY DATE: THU 29TH SEPTEMBER 2016.
;hmm
Deposits welcome
;biggrin
Generally, it's only with blatant abuse that people accept that it's racism. That was much rarer until Brexit, when unsurprisingly a lot of people felt emboldened; maybe they (wrongly) believed everyone who voted out agreed with them, maybe they were inspired by a press that liked to describe refugees as cockroaches.
So of course the country is not any more racist, it's just that certain people feel freer about showing it. Increased reporting is not enough to explain it because there have long been attempts to increase reporting of racism. I know a lot of people who have faced abuse since the referendum.
Yes, there was racism before. It was frustrating, isolating, infuriating. But what has happened since Brexit is scarier. Plenty of people are questioning their future in Britain. If this can still happen to us in the place when we were born, 30/40 years after our parents faced it (worse) then when do we actually get to live on an equal footing? We can set up businesses, go through university, get to the top of any profession, represent the country abroad and still not be fully accepted as British. That's what people are thinking in this situation.
The n and the m are, after all, next to each other on the keyboard.
;wink
" 'Leavers £350m a week to be spent on NHS' scanned well as well"
The difference there being that that is a blatant lie ;lol
I never saw that at all, very droll ;lol