The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50
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Comments
Pards, sadly many Leavers didn't take it seriously i.e. took it for a joke.
Now look at the current and predicted future situation - not much to laugh about at the moment is there, not much of a joke. ;hmm
Certainly reads that way.
What was your particular reason to vote leave, a few examples:
Border controls,
Money for NHS,
Courts can't deport criminals because of human rights.
But what's this about bullying and threats, that's the language of Farage and co, or do you mean warnings of the consequences of leaving?
Yes I 100% am
And I'll give you a couple of examples of what I consider to be bullying threats from pretty influential people
Gideon - exit = emergency budget and tax rises
Obama - back of the queue
By the way, I hail from Coventry - a city which had a booming car industry ripped away from it to other countries, all witihn the EU days. So perhaps it might be possible to empathise slightly with people who have lived and born the brunt of things like this if they chose not to put their X in the remain box?
And it might fairly be said, on the other side, ' perhaps it might be possible to empathise slightly with people who have ... had the opportunities and social and economic benefits of being in the EU and are now going to have those ripped away from them and will be bearing the brunt of exiters choosing not to put their X in the remain box?
--
My point being, I feel it is a mistake (just my opinion, mind) not to look at the bigger picture (which is what your car industry' comment sounds like).
Anyways on to your most recent question - yes I would still vote leave (I didn't say happy as it was not a happy decision for me).
So far the fallout from the vote is actually less than I expected. It was always going to be a turbulent time after the result and my decision was made with that in mind. My reasons for voting leave do not fall into your list, it was more to do with that I did not believe that in the long term it was right for us to remain in the EU which is constantly looking to extend its control/power over its member states.
I am all for free trade, and even free movement of labour but for me these benefits were slowly being eroded by the direction that the EU is ultimately heading in. Rather than an EU based free trade and human/workers rights I would like to see a world wide set of standards set up to benefit all. However I do not believe that the EU will be able to achieve this and I think that there can be a more democratic way of achieving this in the future. That might be an idealistic view, but for me the I do believe it could be possible and as shown by the response of the remain voters there are many people out there that want to safe guard our future. You and I just have a different view on how we might be able to get there.
"So far the fallout from the vote is actually less than I expected."
I suggest you follow some of the links I've posted to see just how hard it is going to be just to get the economy back to where it was before the referendum.
"Rather than an EU based free trade and human/workers rights I would like to see a world wide set of standards set up to benefit all."
I think that place is called Utopia. As soon as you involve USA you can forget about workers' rights.
"I am all for free trade, and even free movement of labour but for me these benefits were slowly being eroded by the direction that the EU is ultimately heading in."
Firstly, so you agree then that free movement of labour is a benefit.
Secondly, can you explain why you think these benefits are being eroded.
;hmm
That`s better.
Re the USA - there are many issues there that need addressing as well as workers rights, health care, and gun control to name a couple but their voters seem to not want these things. This is the problem with democracy, you cannot force things on a population if they do not want them even if they may be better for it. But what better system do we have to help us make the world a better place?
Free movement of labour is a benefit, free movement of people though has knock on effects that need to be considered and should be a subject that can be discussed without people being branded racist or equally using it as an excuse to be racist. We couldn't actually cope if all of the people in the world who are in desperate need all turned up at once seeking our help. We should look to address the issues causing mass movement of people whilst doing what we can for those really in need, however that is no small issue to be able to sort out and again there is no easy solution. I do not think that the EU's open door policy was the right decision, however I do 100% agree that we do need to help and that we should be looking at all options.
Both sides lied through teeth it's politics as for the future well like me you can't say what will happen
From a personal point my business has seen no change yet and neither has any of my clients
Most of the world's refugees are in countries like Lebanon, Turkey, Jordan, Pakistan, Kenya, Bangladesh, Nepal etc.
If more of the world had regional free movement policies like the EU, that would ease refugee and migrant crises. A lot of the people deemed economic migrants these days are actually climate refugees. From areas completely destroyed so they're having to move away. If the borders of nation states weren't restricting them, we could have greater regional movement rather than having these long journeys. Borders are outdated, countries think they can lock themselves behind their own borders and protect themselves but they only exacerbate problems. Especially in regions where the borders were drawn up in a lunch time or with a ruler.
But on the off chance that you'll be curious enough to check, I'll ask you this - how is it disrespectful and how am I preaching?
I am simply posting, from various informed sources, opinions, comments, forecasts etc. on the fallout of the Brexit vote. Unfortunately, they all seem to be negative. If that's painful, you've made your bed, now lie in it.
This is not something as trivial as a football result. This is something that will affect millions of lives for possibly a generation, and not for the better. If you leavers think you're not going to be reminded of this, then think again.
And if that is what you call preaching, I suggest you go to a church or temple or mosque to hear what preaching really is.
Madcap, I hear what you're saying, it probably worked for a while back in much earlier times, but I think it's too late to turn back the millennia.
Outcast ;ok
I'm sure any positive articles you claim to be ficticious.
Nobody at all knows what the outcome will be.
Personally, I am bitter about both the outcome, and the way it was reached.
You're right that I can't know what the long term effects will be for certain, but I strongly doubt they will be so much better than things would have been that the inevitable short to mid-term consequences will be worth it.
For your information, I don't spend "every waking moment trawling anything and everything to find all the negative comments or postings I can". I only have to open my homepage (BBC) and read what I see there or follow a link.
I want the UK to be a united, successful place to live with a thriving economy, a well functioning NHS and a fair and equal society.
I just don't think that we will achieve it this way any time in the near future and all the articles that you refer to seem to agree with that.
The first sentence in your second paragragh, I totally agree with you. I am 100% in agreement with you.
The second sentence in that same paragraph is where you and me disagree and feel in the near future it can't be done.
This is where we differ, I feel in the near, to possible future, things could be different, where we could meet in the middle, things could be different.
The thing is, we won't know for definite for a good few years.
For now, we will have to disagree to disagree. ;ok
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/13/philip-hammond-treasury-eu-grants-investment-fund-projects
If we are to fund Y ourselves but no longer have to pay X then Z changes from a - to a + and we will then have these funds spare to also invest in our infrastructure/economy.
Add to that the fact that we will then also be in control of the funding of Y we will have the power to amend/change this should the markets change allowing us more freedom to adapt to an ever changing world.
To me this is a positive, and to a lot of remainers they said that fear of losing funding for sciences etc was a negative. Well this is now one negative that they can cross off their long list.