The UK is Out - New PM - and whither now for Article 50
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Comments
The Leave have issued a lot of information in leaflets (anything up to 6 page A5 pamphlets) and even did an 8 page metro style news paper, all of which make well thought out and compelling arguments to leave, with lots of comment on the remain sides claims of doom basically pointing out (apart from speculation by all and sundry) they can not provide any factual proof of their claims any more then the Leave side can.
The FT has been the most sensible newspaper in its coverage but no-one reads it and those who do have made up their minds.
I feel the same as MrsG. I haven't seen a single good argument to leave. Nothing beyond the anti-immigrant stance actually requires leaving. The stuff about linking with the commonwealth is nonsense. Former colonies have their trade deal with the EU, they have no reason to give Britain special treatment (quite the opposite).
Admeus: while Remain might exaggerate future impacts (though imo there are potentially big dangers) the Leave campaign have lied a lot about what is happening now. A bit different.
Did they include the 'Turks, coming to rape our white women!' line.
A vote winner with a certain demographic?
Metro Style, you say.
Like this?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/eu-referendum-brexit-immigration-what-it-means-facts-live-updates-newspaper-advert-leave-remain-a7095191.html
Go on then. Persuade me ;biggrin
I thought I'd find a link outside the UK press. It also states: It will not be doom and gloom or nirvana whatever the result.
Personally I would like to move away from EU control, for two main reasons:
1. I want my vote to count for the way my country is run. If I don't like the incumbent Government I can vote against it - the European Commissioners (who hold the real power) are unelected Eurocrats.
2. I want to be able to trade Globally, without European protectionism preventing the UK coming to our own trade agreements.
Are we like Guernsey, as recently claimed by by the French Economic Minister, bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36567469 or are we the 5th largest economy in the world?
Whatever the result, life will go on, I'll still support the Hammers, focus on improving the lot for my family and enjoying life.
Vote according to your own opinion and if in doubt vote with your heart. Whatever you do, don't fail to vote, then complain if the result isn't the one you hoped for.
One of the biggest decision with regard the direction this country takes is handed to people who cannot weigh or measure information for accuracy and that is a dangerous situation. I personally have had people tell me they are voting leave because otherwise we will be overrun by Syrian refugees due to the EU allowing them in, because we give 350m (that's 7 payets) to the EU every week, because Turkey is becoming a member of the EU in October, because the unelected EU pass laws which we have to adopt. Now of course none of these things are factually true, but people believe them because they have read them or heard someone say them.
Very worrying state of affairs - but at least it has caused Boris to break cover and reveal himself.
What I found astonishing was some of the newspapers guilty of this suddenly pulling out the Remain editorials at the last minute, as it that would make the slightest difference after the work they've done over decades.
I know it's pretty much too late for anyone to change their minds. I'm sticking with in because I see a lot of benefits to the EU and while their might be genuine problems, they haven't been at the forefront of this debate. Some of the things people are worried about having been dealt with sensibly, by other side. And I don't want the right-wing empowered or to help Boris Johnson in his leadership bid. Remain might not have given many good reasons to vote in, but the Leave campaign didn't give me convince me the country would be better off leaving. So staying is safer.
I`ll go to Dover and help fill in the Chunnel! ;ok
lolololol
20.32
The majority of voters in the last 2 elections have not been able to change the Government that they clearly didn't want.
The last 2 elections have seen a government formed by a party claiming narrowly over 1/3 of the vote, (on a turnout of 2/3 of voters.)
So, almost 2/3 of those who chose to vote in the last elections did not see the party they voted for take power.
That's some democracy.
“Dear Brits, if you remain in the EU ... then we ourselves will recognise the Wembley goal,”
Touching on decades of rivalry on the soccer pitch, the paper said Germany would
go without its goalkeeper in the next penalty shootout between England and Germany.
... the mass-selling tabloid promised to put towels on sun loungers to reserve the best spots for Britons by the hotel pool, and to not use suntan lotion out of solidarity with sunburnt Brits.
If Britain were to stay in the EU, Bild also pledged to supply the baddie for every James Bond film, put its clocks back one hour so they were on the same time zone as Britain and introduce an EU guideline that bans froth on beer.
;biggrin
I was very much on the fence the whole way throughout this awful debate. In the end I decided to vote out (and this was not an easy decision for me). I have hated all of the bile being said about immigration (I am a fan of immigration and am in a relationship with an immigrant) but in the end I decided to take the risk of the unknown should we vote to leave.
This is because I was more concerned that the EU is slowly heading towards a United States setup which I am not in favour of, and I do believe that after a tough initial period that we will emerge from the exit and still be a strong nation.
I work in London in property so for my job in the short term I am better off if we remain, however I think that the scaremongering that no one wants to trade and why are we shutting ourselves off from the world are wrong. There are already reports that the head of industry in Germany is already saying that if we leave then they need to agree a trade deal with us asap. I also see us still playing an active role in the world.
I still think that remain will win by a small margin, and if this happens then I accept that. The biggest concern for me is that after the result we as a nation pull back together to make sure that we make the most of which ever way it goes.
Granted that it would be difficult to be less than 100% ;wink
55/45 In
We'll see.
My feeling is if the UK leaves the EU it will become apparent just what an insignificant part it really has on the world stage.
As to demands for trade agreements to be made quickly, how come those who want to leave the EU despise its lumbering bureaucracy, but also imagine that once it is no longer part of it, they will be falling over themselves to accommodate the UK?
Not sure we would do even as well in a revamped Home Champs, as it looks like Wales, Ireland AND Northern Ireland are better than us.
On the other hand I think immigrants are definitely the issue. I just dont like all these Johnny Foreigners coming in and scoring fantastic goals, nutmegging our defenders, creating beautiful football with their trickery and their fancy stepovers. I'd much rather watch Swindon v Mansfield on a muddy midweek December night and walk home with a dodgy pie from a white van afterwards.
But I don't want to leave Europe. And anyway, after all that bad behaviour in the 80s we lost our chance to be in Europe in 87 and we've only just been let back in.
I do not think that there will be any quick solution to this if we do vote leave, and personally I think that the EU will make it hard for the UK on any new deals to make an example of us.
However the point I was trying to make is that some of the scaremongering is just that and that there will be countries/industries that will want to trade. Now how easy that is to set up is a whole different matter.
I don't recall anyone saying no one would trade with the UK, which would be silly, simply that the process of setting up such trade deals would be lengthy, and injurious to the country's economic welfare in the short term, and that the terms of such deals were likely to be less favourable than current deals as part of the EU.
Schengen has been a 'red herring' in this, as it actually makes no difference to the British as we still have to show our passport as we enter and leave the Schengen area. This does not change whether we are in or out. It may change if the EU Schengen countries decide they need more control over their own borders and re-instate border controls - hence leaving Schengen.
The difference is whether we have to allow (potentially) unlimited European Passport holders into the UK to live and work. That the Swiss have not signed up to.
I recognise that many Brits live and work abroad, but that has always been so, just as many Europeans live and work in Britain. No sensible person is saying this has to halt, what we are saying is it should be within the control of the UK Government. The current system is actually discriminatory (against non-EU passport holders), I prefer a Global to a European approach.
#Remain