I think Payet was with us and on the wave we were riding and then saw who we signed in the summer and quite rightly said hold on if that's you giving it a real go then I am off. How he went about it however was unforgivable and the club and Slav deserved much better. I can't quite help feel we missed a massive opportunity that summer which may not come again for a while and that we needed show a bit more ambition with our signings.
We were poor at NUFC and imploded at MUFC where many get battered, yesterday wasn't pretty but it was effective
Man U - got battered Newcastle - got battered Southampton - spirited performance going down to 10 Huddersfield - poor game but maybe scrapped through the win West Brom - as usual one of the worst games of the season Spurs - got played off the park until the sending off. (basically needed Spurs to do something stupid to be bothered to do something in the game ourselves) Swansea - poor again.
We were poor at NUFC and imploded at MUFC where many get battered, yesterday wasn't pretty but it was effective
Man U - got battered Newcastle - got battered Southampton - spirited performance going down to 10 Huddersfield - poor game but maybe scrapped through the win West Brom - as usual one of the worst games of the season Spurs - got played off the park until the sending off. (basically needed Spurs to do something stupid to be bothered to do something in the game ourselves) Swansea - poor again.
You've kind of proved my point, I already mentioned NUFC and MUFC games....
Saints, Huddersfield and Spurs performances were acceptable enough, WBA didn't even want to win at home, you can't level that type of attitude at us, no matter how much you think we should change the manager.
For the first 25 against Spurs we were fine, the injury and change didn't help us
I don't think it's fair to suggest Payet just did it by himself. He has openly said that Bilic was a father figure to him, which tells me that he must have had a bit more involvement in things than just saying "off you go lad".
Payet made a big difference to us, but a lot of people had individually outstanding seasons that year.
I am questioning if Bilic makes players better in particular the forward players.
Payet as such would be a argument for yes he can, but then I think that he was just a rare top 4 talent, a Di Canio type who you just played and let him get on with it.
When I look at our attackers in general I haven't seen it.
Antonio has stepped forward but it was like Bilic stumbled over him and was forced to play him due to injuries.
We had forward players come and go, we have players currently on the books who are standing still or going backwards.
I don't think it's fair to suggest Payet just did it by himself. He has openly said that Bilic was a father figure to him, which tells me that he must have had a bit more involvement in things than just saying "off you go lad".
Payet made a big difference to us, but a lot of people had individually outstanding seasons that year.
There are two parts to coaching: tactics and man management.
Bilic is a very good man manager, in that players like him and he gives them confidence.
That's what I think Payet meant by saying Bilic was very involved.
Whether Bilic was tactically very good that season, in terms of getting the best out of players, I'm not sure.
Bilic himself has said that when Payet was in the team, he lifted the performance of everyone else.
So, how much of a factor tactics were in the season we did well is up for debate.
I can't quite help feel we missed a massive opportunity that summer which may not come again for a while and that we needed show a bit more ambition with our signings.
Not the first time and doubt it will be the last - it is a habit we have had with all our owners back to the sixties. As soon as they need to put their hands in their pockets to a large degree to improve the team and move us on a big step they shy away, only difference is that in the past we used to sell our best players to line their pockets.
I do think the owners have limitations on their ability or willingness to spend but I what we have spent is also not bad, not great by a long stretch, but not bad. The problem for me is the way it's been spent, last season was all about squad rather than first team and this season I just think we could maybe have spent a bit more and better. Arto is a luxury signing where as we needed a defensive midfielder, he was also a bit over priced in my view. Last season also Snodgrass ? Ayew? There lacks in my view a connected transfer policy in which we think about how they will fit together and what formation we want before buying. So yes I would have liked more spent ( but don't we always) but if what we spent was spent more coherently we could still have a more balanced team.
For me, last summer's transfer window showed the power of the laws of attraction. Because it was West Ham, people (bloggers, journalists, fans, etc.) discounted the possibility of bigger names moving to the club. Once the rumours started flying, it was a self-fulfilling prophecy ("Who do you want to move to?" "Not West Ham, anyway!"), and once the first "name" turned us down, it was the beginning of the end.
How's Payet getting on now, with his top 4 talent?
Exactly......hovering about 3rd
In France
So as high as they can expect to be when you consider the teams above them?
West Ham are due to a few failings that are well documented where?
I think I know where I would rather be if you are looking for some ambition. Didn't like the way he went about things but I believe he was right to go back to Marseille. ;ok
Until we have owners with real intentions to take us to the next level this will continue to happen imo , Bilic was always a cheap option we always here about the manager or player that got away don't we and always end up with 3rd 4th best
14m net spend all they are doing is just keeping us in the premier league for the next 4 years then they will cash in , i have never understood with our fantastic fan base and the new ground why we have not been sold to a billionaire who wants to make the club another chelsea / man city .
I too dont agree with Payet but when you see Zaza and calleri coming in i suppose you can't see the next level after the move to the ground he was promised .
You are aware that they were both internationals? Hindsight is a lovely thing but it's a fact that when Zaza came he had just played in the Euros. When Payet came he was out in the cold, nowhere near the French national team.
I've said it often enough, it is always easy blasting someone for not spending enough, after all it isn't your own money. Same with team selection. It isn't your job on the line.
A lot of the players we brought in last season were internationals. Feghouli, Nordveith, Ayew, Zaza ... some take time to click, some might simply not take to the PL. And some might be internationals in a weak team but internationals they all are.
Now IF Payet said that he left because we didn't match his intent then either that is not true, as at the time he claims he made up his mind there was no way to know it wouldn't work out or he is disrespecting a lot of countries by claiming their internationals are useless since buying them doesn't show any intent.
That's why I said IF. I believe I read about an interview regarding this subject recently but I am neither sure where it was nor if I am misquoting what I think I read. All I am trying to do is show up some of the arguments being used to beat SB and the Daves as being rather one-sided and since the subject of Payet came up i am using this as an example.
There are millions of people every weekend who think they could do a better job than their team's manager. But the truth is that in a league of 20 teams there needs to be someone at the top and there need to be three teams at the bottom. And while nobody wants their team to be one of these three teams it is not our jobs who are on the line. I think it isn't fair to complain about owners not pumping more of their hard earned cash into the club. Finances are a lot more complicated than just "net spend of X in half a year". PSG will be calculating the cost of signing Neymar over the time of his contract. If that was 5 years (I can't quite remember atm) then that would mean that in 2017/18 they spent some 45m Euros on him. Doesn't sound half as dramatic as 222m, doesn't it? And don't forget that this sum usually includes flexible bonuses. So in fact it might be only 30m.
Comments
However you can't just say that Payet coached himself, if so why wasn't he top four the previous 10 years?
Payet saw through some of the stuff at the club and unfortunately created a personal situation which meant he had to go back
Newcastle - got battered
Southampton - spirited performance going down to 10
Huddersfield - poor game but maybe scrapped through the win
West Brom - as usual one of the worst games of the season
Spurs - got played off the park until the sending off. (basically needed Spurs to do something stupid to be bothered to do something in the game ourselves)
Swansea - poor again.
The Mirror says that Bilic will be given until the end of the season to prove he deserves a new contract which fits with S&G's profile
Saints, Huddersfield and Spurs performances were acceptable enough, WBA didn't even want to win at home, you can't level that type of attitude at us, no matter how much you think we should change the manager.
For the first 25 against Spurs we were fine, the injury and change didn't help us
In France
Payet made a big difference to us, but a lot of people had individually outstanding seasons that year.
Payet as such would be a argument for yes he can, but then I think that he was just a rare top 4 talent, a Di Canio type who you just played and let him get on with it.
When I look at our attackers in general I haven't seen it.
Antonio has stepped forward but it was like Bilic stumbled over him and was forced to play him due to injuries.
We had forward players come and go, we have players currently on the books who are standing still or going backwards.
;hmm
Bilic is a very good man manager, in that players like him and he gives them confidence.
That's what I think Payet meant by saying Bilic was very involved.
Whether Bilic was tactically very good that season, in terms of getting the best out of players, I'm not sure.
Bilic himself has said that when Payet was in the team, he lifted the performance of everyone else.
So, how much of a factor tactics were in the season we did well is up for debate.
Everton look lost without their best player.
We only lost Payet in January. It takes time.
A team get used to a certain outlet to get goals and finding a new way isn’t easy,
Personally I think Bilic will have a good season and then walk, thanks to our owners and fans.
Not the first time and doubt it will be the last - it is a habit we have had with all our owners back to the sixties. As soon as they need to put their hands in their pockets to a large degree to improve the team and move us on a big step they shy away, only difference is that in the past we used to sell our best players to line their pockets.
West Ham are due to a few failings that are well documented where?
I think I know where I would rather be if you are looking for some ambition. Didn't like the way he went about things but I believe he was right to go back to Marseille. ;ok
14m net spend all they are doing is just keeping us in the premier league for the next 4 years then they will cash in , i have never understood with our fantastic fan base and the new ground why we have not been sold to a billionaire who wants to
make the club another chelsea / man city .
I too dont agree with Payet but when you see Zaza and calleri coming in i suppose
you can't see the next level after the move to the ground he was promised .
I've said it often enough, it is always easy blasting someone for not spending enough, after all it isn't your own money. Same with team selection. It isn't your job on the line.
He simply came to us at the wrong time in his life. He has admitted that the issue was with hm and not the club.
Now IF Payet said that he left because we didn't match his intent then either that is not true, as at the time he claims he made up his mind there was no way to know it wouldn't work out or he is disrespecting a lot of countries by claiming their internationals are useless since buying them doesn't show any intent.
There are millions of people every weekend who think they could do a better job than their team's manager. But the truth is that in a league of 20 teams there needs to be someone at the top and there need to be three teams at the bottom. And while nobody wants their team to be one of these three teams it is not our jobs who are on the line.
I think it isn't fair to complain about owners not pumping more of their hard earned cash into the club. Finances are a lot more complicated than just "net spend of X in half a year". PSG will be calculating the cost of signing Neymar over the time of his contract. If that was 5 years (I can't quite remember atm) then that would mean that in 2017/18 they spent some 45m Euros on him. Doesn't sound half as dramatic as 222m, doesn't it? And don't forget that this sum usually includes flexible bonuses. So in fact it might be only 30m.