Summer Transfer Window 2023

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Comments

  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    Fortuneseeker said:

    Lets hope Tim Steidten doesn't get tired of not being allowed to bring in the players he would like to improve the team with

    Who says Steidten has a better idea of which players would improve the team than Moyes? Apart from Vlasic, Scamacca and Kral all Moyes's additions have been successful
    Kehrer, Ings and Downes have been successful?
    Im not sure Emerson is even good enough being our first choice LB.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    BerlinHammer said:

    ASLEFshrugged said:

    Fortuneseeker said:

    Lets hope Tim Steidten doesn't get tired of not being allowed to bring in the players he would like to improve the team with

    Who says Steidten has a better idea of which players would improve the team than Moyes? Apart from Vlasic, Scamacca and Kral all Moyes's additions have been successful
    Kehrer, Ings and Downes have been successful?
    Im not sure Emerson is even good enough being our first choice LB.
    Evra and Hugill, going further back. Areola hasn't been able to displace Fabianski, and looks to be going into this season as second choice again. Considering Pope was available for the same price I don't think Areola was the right decision. Jury's still out on Cornet.

    The Leverkusen team that played us off the park on Saturday was largely built under Steidten's watch, lead by a manager that Steidten picked. He, like anyone, will make a few signings that won't work, but the club obviously have faith in him identifying the right players to help us progress, otherwise they wouldn't have brought him in.
  • alderzalderz
    We've got more recent trophies than Bayer Leverkusen, though...
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    The funny thing is I remember it being reported that Moyes had asked for the review during his first term that said as part of the club changing how it operates, it should have a technical director to ensure continuity and less chopping and changing between managers. It had seemed like a good move to me but now with Moyes at this stage having had quite a bit of success, and apparently without wanting to leave, it doesn’t seem to have been implemented very well.
  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer
    alderz said:

    We've got more recent trophies than Bayer Leverkusen, though...

    They've been in the champions league more recent than us though and weren't nearly relegated last season
  • alderzalderz
    BerlinHammer said:

    alderz said:

    We've got more recent trophies than Bayer Leverkusen, though...

    They've been in the champions league more recent than us though and weren't nearly relegated last season
    Yeah but trophy
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited August 2023
    OutcastLondoner said:

    The funny thing is I remember it being reported that Moyes had asked for the review during his first term that said as part of the club changing how it operates, it should have a technical director to ensure continuity and less chopping and changing between managers. It had seemed like a good move to me but now with Moyes at this stage having had quite a bit of success, and apparently without wanting to leave, it doesn’t seem to have been implemented very well.

    I get the impression that Moyes wanted a better recruitment set-up, but with them effectively working for him (e.g. I want Maguire; go and get him). What he seems to have got is a technical director that will be implementing a strategy that makes who is in charge of the team less important.
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    alderz said:

    BerlinHammer said:

    alderz said:

    We've got more recent trophies than Bayer Leverkusen, though...

    They've been in the champions league more recent than us though and weren't nearly relegated last season
    Yeah but trophy

  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer

  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer
    Going back to transfers... well more speculation... apparently we're interested in Fati... i really nearly need to block this guy from my twitter feed
  • alderzalderz
    This may be a controversial opinion to some, but I think that the joy I feel from having a “good” season that results in optimism for the next season does not add up to to the level of joy I felt at winning a trophy. I would happily take 20 PL defeats, a successful relegation battle, and the FA Cup / EFL Cup / Europa League this season, and every season.
  • FortuneseekerFortuneseeker
    @BerlinHammer, We have already had one of those in Benny McCarthy!
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    alderz said:

    This may be a controversial opinion to some, but I think that the joy I feel from having a “good” season that results in optimism for the next season does not add up to to the level of joy I felt at winning a trophy. I would happily take 20 PL defeats, a successful relegation battle, and the FA Cup / EFL Cup / Europa League this season, and every season.

    I suspect we all would. If there was a guarantee of a cup every season then it matters little what we do in the league.

    But the trophy we won was entirely dependent on how well we did in the league in 2021/22, so the two are intrinsically linked.

    No-one is downplaying the trophy, by the way. It was an incredible night and one that we'll all remember. But I don't think that just because we won a cup under Moyes he becomes immune to criticism, which is the attitude that certain sections of our fanbase seem to have adopted (not on here, necessarily).

    Oh, and Ansu Fati. Not a chance.
  • LukerzLukerz
    It’s also worth considering that we earned the right for that trophy based on two excellent league campaigns. Don’t just look at it as a trophy win, we didn’t just drop into the Europa Conference League. That final was the culmination of two years efforts & achievement, & we cemented it with silverware.
  • LukerzLukerz
    edited August 2023
    Seen us linked with Tierney today, which would be a great signing. I’m also not convinced with Emerson as a first choice LB.
  • LukerzLukerz

  • alderzalderz
    OldCastleSwift said:

    alderz said:

    This may be a controversial opinion to some, but I think that the joy I feel from having a “good” season that results in optimism for the next season does not add up to to the level of joy I felt at winning a trophy. I would happily take 20 PL defeats, a successful relegation battle, and the FA Cup / EFL Cup / Europa League this season, and every season.

    I suspect we all would. If there was a guarantee of a cup every season then it matters little what we do in the league.

    But the trophy we won was entirely dependent on how well we did in the league in 2021/22, so the two are intrinsically linked.

    No-one is downplaying the trophy, by the way. It was an incredible night and one that we'll all remember. But I don't think that just because we won a cup under Moyes he becomes immune to criticism, which is the attitude that certain sections of our fanbase seem to have adopted (not on here, necessarily).

    Oh, and Ansu Fati. Not a chance.
    Two things about this.

    1. I don’t think you can say that winning a cup means the league means little and simultaneously complain about the league form, IMO. Not digging you out specifically because I agree with plenty of what you say, but I do feel that some want their cake and to eat it too.

    2. Can’t believe you didn’t end with “Ansu? Fati chance”
  • alderzalderz
    Lukerz said:

    Seen us linked with Tierney today, which would be a great signing. I’m also not convinced with Emerson as a first choice LB.

    I’ve seen that too. Link appears to be from “football transfers dot com”. IMO Tierney is a great player but is proper sick note
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    BerlinHammer said:

    They've been in the champions league more recent than us though and weren't nearly relegated last season

    Except...

    Leverkusen sacked Gerardo Seoane after 8 games when they were 17th (out of 18), they brought in Xabi Alonso and had slowly clawed their way back into the European places by April

    Leverkusen have been in the Bundesliga since 1979 and regularly qualify for Europe although they haven't won a domestic trophy since 1993 and have only won once in Europe, UEFA Cup 1988

    Oh dear, Leverkusen are the German version of Spurs...
  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer
    edited August 2023
    alderz said:

    This may be a controversial opinion to some, but I think that the joy I feel from having a “good” season that results in optimism for the next season does not add up to to the level of joy I felt at winning a trophy. I would happily take 20 PL defeats, a successful relegation battle, and the FA Cup / EFL Cup / Europa League this season, and every season.

    Thats not controversial, thats just how you feel. I get that.
    Lukerz said:

    Seen us linked with Tierney today, which would be a great signing. I’m also not convinced with Emerson as a first choice LB.

    I would love Tierney but he's very injury prone?
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    edited August 2023
    alderz said:

    OldCastleSwift said:

    alderz said:

    This may be a controversial opinion to some, but I think that the joy I feel from having a “good” season that results in optimism for the next season does not add up to to the level of joy I felt at winning a trophy. I would happily take 20 PL defeats, a successful relegation battle, and the FA Cup / EFL Cup / Europa League this season, and every season.

    I suspect we all would. If there was a guarantee of a cup every season then it matters little what we do in the league.

    But the trophy we won was entirely dependent on how well we did in the league in 2021/22, so the two are intrinsically linked.

    No-one is downplaying the trophy, by the way. It was an incredible night and one that we'll all remember. But I don't think that just because we won a cup under Moyes he becomes immune to criticism, which is the attitude that certain sections of our fanbase seem to have adopted (not on here, necessarily).

    Oh, and Ansu Fati. Not a chance.

    I don’t think you can say that winning a cup means the league means little and simultaneously complain about the league form, IMO. Not digging you out specifically because I agree with plenty of what you say, but I do feel that some want their cake and to eat it too.

    That's not what I was doing. I was effectively agreeing with your sentiment that "I would happily take 20 PL defeats, a successful relegation battle, and the FA Cup / EFL Cup / Europa League this season, and every season"

    I wouldn't complain about the league form if we were guaranteed a cup win every season, because ultimately I want to see us win things.

    But we obviously don't have that guarantee so our league form is important in giving us a greater chance of cup wins in the future, both in terms of where we finish and in how attractive we are to the players that will improve us.
  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer
    ASLEFshrugged said:

    BerlinHammer said:

    They've been in the champions league more recent than us though and weren't nearly relegated last season

    Except...

    Leverkusen sacked Gerardo Seoane after 8 games when they were 17th (out of 18), they brought in Xabi Alonso and had slowly clawed their way back into the European places by April

    Leverkusen have been in the Bundesliga since 1979 and regularly qualify for Europe although they haven't won a domestic trophy since 1993 and have only won once in Europe, UEFA Cup 1988

    Oh dear, Leverkusen are the German version of Spurs...
    So they have better seasons then us the majority of the time and get to play on the bigger stages?
  • Giant_HammerGiant_Hammer
    edited August 2023
    Noooooo! I was so happy for the couple of seasons where I was looking at teams just above us to see if we could finish top six rather than doing mini calculations every week at what the sides below us had to do to help us to safety. I really thought the relegation worry seasons were a thing of the past. I really don’t want to suffer that again every season. :o
  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Lukerz said:


    Steidten was a 90s teen. I respect his commitment to the centre parting.
  • BerlinHammerBerlinHammer
    Giant_Hammer said:

    Noooooo! I was so happy for the couple of seasons where I was looking at teams just above us to see if we could finish top six rather than doing mini calculations every week at what the sides below us had to do to help us to safety. I really thought the relegation worry seasons were a thing of the past. I really don’t want to suffer that again every season. :o

    Unfortunately getting in the top 6 will be very hard going forward with Newcastle and Villa having money now
  • OutcastLondonerOutcastLondoner
    Lukerz said:


    I see we've resorted to personally escorting potential signings now. What you can't see is Borges is in Alvarez's suitcase.
  • ASLEFshruggedASLEFshrugged
    BerlinHammer said:

    So they have better seasons then us the majority of the time and get to play on the bigger stages?

    Yes, very much like Spurs

    Only Bayern Munich (58) and Borussia Dortmund (47) have played more consecutive seasons in the top flight than Leverkusen (44). Wolfsburg are fourth (26)
  • Giant_HammerGiant_Hammer
    Berlin, yes you’re quite right. I just don’t want to be in the bottom six every season.
  • alderzalderz
    I've been doing some #Maths this morning. I've looked at Rice & Soucek's combined 2022/23 stats to see what we essentially get from them as a pairing. I've also looked at Edson Alvarez's 2022/23 stats to see what he brings, and then looked at the gap between what he brings and what Soucek & Rice gave us.

    Then, I've looked at McTominay, Gallagher, Ward-Prowse and Fofana's stats in - as they are our rumoured to be our main midfield targets - and I've now created a metric that compares Alvarez + each of them to Rice & Soucek to see which pairings improve us most.

    Obviously the Eredivisie is a lot weaker than the Premier League, and Ajax are much more dominant than we are within their league (although they did have a poor season last year). To counteract this, I've reduced all of Alvarez's stats by 20%. Also, as Ligue 1 is poorer than the Premier League, I've reduced Fofana's by 10%.

    All the numbers are below, but basically, Alvarez & Gallagher combined would be the most effective at replacing Rice & Soucek, with them being better in 20 of the 26 metrics. Next best is McTominay & Alvarez with 17 of 26, then Fofana & Alvarez with 16, and then Ward-Prowse & Soucek are tied with 15 of the 26.

    So, based on my #Maths, I think Connor Gallagher would be the best midfielder to bring to play with Alvarez.


  • OldCastleSwiftOldCastleSwift
    Beat me to it.

    But yeah, Gallagher for me too.
This discussion has been closed.