Summer Transfer Window 2023

alderz

OldCastleSwift said:

MrsGrey said:

Well, it's an awful recruitment strategy that all PL clubs have at one time or another adopted. If nobody sold a player until they had signed the replacement, the transfer windows would be much quieter periods.

It's just the reality of the business.

The awful recruitment strategy I'm referring to is the buying of players that don't fit the manager's tactics.

It was evident very early on that Scamacca wasn't the Antonio-esque striker that Moyes spent 18 months looking for. And it should have been evident to our scouting team.

And 12 months later we sell him at a loss and have to start the process all over again.

I could be wrong, but my view on this is different.

We bought him, and Paqueta, with the intent to evolve our playing style. When they were both fit at the same time, they started to click, but they got very little opportunity to play together as one or the other spent most of the season injured. When Scamacca was fit, Moyes played him. There was a 5 game spell in February where he was an unused sub, but prior to that he had had a knee injury, then after that was out with a knee injury, so I'd question how fit he was during that month. He came back from fitness, and Moyes started him in pre-season, in a front two to accommodate his best position. Then he basically made it clear he wanted to leave.

IMO, the club spent a long time looking for a striker, found one, and then gave him a lot of playing opportunities. To me, all of the signals from the club were that they wanted to give him the chance to be the main man this season, because they believed in him, but he wanted out.

We've made it fairly clear that we won't force players to stay if they want out, so we let him go.

IMO, this isn't a failing of our recruitment strategy, this is a an unfortunate case of a player failing to settle in a new country while spending much of his first year out injured.

jay_in_cpt

What about Vlasic, Haller … you can stick up for the manager / team all you want but in all reality our recruitment has been , not suitable with Moyes in charge IMO

Yeoldhammer

30m for 30 year old Harry Maguire the meme factory.

alderz

jay_in_cpt said:

What about Vlasic, Haller … you can stick up for the manager / team all you want but in all reality our recruitment has been , not suitable with Moyes in charge IMO

Where did I say that our recruitment has been good?

I said that I don't think Scamacca is an example of a poor recruitment policy. I think the two things can be true at the same time. Do I think we have a particularly good recruitment strategy? No. Do I think that the Scamacca purchase and sale are examples of us having a less than good recruitment strategy? Also No.

steve

The thought of Maguire coming to us and wearing the shirt makes me quite ill

jay_in_cpt

And I also didn’t say it’s been bad, just with Moyes at the helm it’s like old fashioned and not creative enough IMO…
Maguire, McTominay, is that the best they can find around the world…sometimes we are IMO just too kind or blinkered to see what really is going on and if it’s mentioned, it can’t be true ( this is not a dig at u Alderz ) just how I see it …

BubblesNeverDies

The transfer fee paid to Sassuolo was reportedly of £30.5 million, with an additional £5 million in add-ons. A 10% sell-on clause for the Italian team was also reportedly included in the deal.
Total £39m if the sell-on clause is invoked.

Scamacca to Atalanta. The reported fee was an initial £22.5 million plus a further £4.3 million in add-ons.
Total £26.8.

So 3 goals in 16 PL appearances plus 5 goals in 11 ECL appearances cost West Ham £12.2m excluding wages.

Crazy.

BerlinHammer

Im hoping the deal for maguire is pay £30m get mctominay free? 🤔 i dont know why we would pay so much for someone that sat on the bench last season and you can clearly see his confidence has gone with the mistakes he made in preseason

ASLEFshrugged

jay_in_cpt said:

What about Vlasic, Haller … you can stick up for the manager / team all you want but in all reality our recruitment has been , not suitable with Moyes in charge IMO

Haller was signed by Pellegrini not Moyes

Along with Vlasic and Scamacca Moyes signed Bowen, Soucek, Coufal, Benrahma, Dawson, Zouma, Areola, Aguerd, Emerson, Kehrer and Paqueta (with the jury still out on Cornet, Ings and Downes).

Are those players "not suitable", "old fashioned and not creative enough"?

buffybegood

BubblesNeverDies said:

The transfer fee paid to Sassuolo was reportedly of £30.5 million, with an additional £5 million in add-ons. A 10% sell-on clause for the Italian team was also reportedly included in the deal.
Total £39m if the sell-on clause is invoked.

Scamacca to Atalanta. The reported fee was an initial £22.5 million plus a further £4.3 million in add-ons.
Total £26.8.

So 3 goals in 16 PL appearances plus 5 goals in 11 ECL appearances cost West Ham £12.2m excluding wages.

Crazy.

We're hardly likely to have triggered many if any of the add-ons, are we, and surely the sell-on clause would only apply to 10% of any profit, which is nothing. So our purchase price was very likely the base amount of £30.5m or very close to it. The actual cost will effectively be close to a "loan fee" of about £3.7m, so not so crazy, imo.

thornburyiron

Buffy a sell on fee does not need to be profit based. Most are based on a percentage of whatever the player is sold on for which I would guess is what we’ve insisted upon.

OldCastleSwift

Vlasic to Torino for £11m. Medical tomorrow, apparently. £35m I think we were reported to have paid, or were willing to pay (not sure of what happened re the Russian sanctions).

Another one gone effectively after one season.

I know there are some that seem content with our business over the last couple of years, but some of this is indefensible, IMO. Can only hope Steidten can bring some long-term strategy to the table.

EXETERHAMMER

We may be massive, but our recruitment ment is not progressive.

MrsGrey

BubblesNeverDies said:

The transfer fee paid to Sassuolo was reportedly of £30.5 million, with an additional £5 million in add-ons. A 10% sell-on clause for the Italian team was also reportedly included in the deal.
Total £39m if the sell-on clause is invoked.

Scamacca to Atalanta. The reported fee was an initial £22.5 million plus a further £4.3 million in add-ons.
Total £26.8.

I'm arithmetically challenged, but I can't see how you get £39m.

£30.5m + £2.25m (as being 10% of the £22.5m sale fee).

Am I missing something? (Genuine question.)

Giant_Hammer

BerlinHammer said:

Im hoping the deal for maguire is pay £30m get mctominay free? 🤔 i dont know why we would pay so much for someone that sat on the bench last season and you can clearly see his confidence has gone with the mistakes he made in preseason

Yes I agree. Seems his confidence has gone but with careful managing a player’s confidence can be rebuilt. He hasn’t exactly been treated well by MU if reports are to be believed and he doesn’t suddenly become a bad player overnight.

What worries me is that I’ve read a couple of posts saying he doesn’t think we are a club worthy of his talents. If that’s true, and I don’t know if it is, I wouldn’t want him anywhere near our club.

Fortuneseeker

@OCS, Lets hope Tim Steidten doesn't get tired of not being allowed to bring in the players he would like to improve the team with.

@jay_in_cpt, That is why we have our new DoF to find better options from around the world only two problems with that is we need to keep an eye on the HG rules & David Moyes appears not to want many of his recommendations.

nychammer66

Any word on Alvarez? Anything positive??

steve

at lest i can pronounce his name

buffybegood

nychammer66 said:

Any word on Alvarez? Anything positive??

Supposedly having a medical tomorrow.

Pengeman

We have probably lost a lot of money on Scamecca, Haller, Vlasic, Anderson, without solving our striker/forward problems. Surprised that we did not go for Coventry's Viktor Gyokeres. He looked suitable for Antonio's role, but has now joined Sporting CP for about €20 million plus add-ons.

thornburyiron

Mrs G I’m sure bubbles included the £5M in add-ons in his calculation but I doubt given the amount of game time/goals etc there would be any to have been paid.

Fortuneseeker

Yeoldhammer said:

30m for 30 year old Harry Maguire the meme factory.

Aston Villa paid £31.5 million for Pau Torres who is four years younger if you want to put some context on our bid.

Lukerz

Both bids of £30m for McTom & Maguire rejected. Move on.

steve

Yes move on at what point does this become stalking ,Like when you keep asking the same girl out but she keeps saying no .Then you go round to her house and where she works .and she still says no .Then she gets a court order against you .And you end up turning to drink and your life is never the same again ....Not that I know anything about that So yes move on David before you get in real trouble

Fortuneseeker

@steve, It’s called the “Lingard” syndrome. David Moyes has suffered from this in the past hasn’t he?

BubblesNeverDies

MrsGrey said:

BubblesNeverDies said:

The transfer fee paid to Sassuolo was reportedly of £30.5 million, with an additional £5 million in add-ons. A 10% sell-on clause for the Italian team was also reportedly included in the deal.
Total £39m if the sell-on clause is invoked.

Scamacca to Atalanta. The reported fee was an initial £22.5 million plus a further £4.3 million in add-ons.
Total £26.8.

I'm arithmetically challenged, but I can't see how you get £39m.

£30.5m + £2.25m (as being 10% of the £22.5m sale fee).

Am I missing something? (Genuine question.)

No, you're correct. I calculated the 10% from the our purchase price (including add-ons) instead of the selling price.
Now where's that funny hat with the big D on it, I'll let you choose the corner.

ASLEFshrugged

Fortuneseeker said:

Lets hope Tim Steidten doesn't get tired of not being allowed to bring in the players he would like to improve the team with

Who says Steidten has a better idea of which players would improve the team than Moyes? Apart from Vlasic, Scamacca and Kral all Moyes's additions have been successful

Bazshuayi

Now we're getting rid of Vlasic, we might as well get the original guy Moyes wanted prior to signing him. I believe hes also a free agent now so that would sort out some of the loss on Vlasic. Can't recall the chaps name though... Begins with L? Ends with Z?

Bazshuayi

Seriously though, seeing Sky say we've improved our bid for Maguire up to 30M totally shocks me! Its just something I cant get my head around

jay_in_cpt

ASLEFshrugged said:

jay_in_cpt said:

What about Vlasic, Haller … you can stick up for the manager / team all you want but in all reality our recruitment has been , not suitable with Moyes in charge IMO

Haller was signed by Pellegrini not Moyes

Along with Vlasic and Scamacca Moyes signed Bowen, Soucek, Coufal, Benrahma, Dawson, Zouma, Areola, Aguerd, Emerson, Kehrer and Paqueta (with the jury still out on Cornet, Ings and Downes).

Are those players "not suitable", "old fashioned and not creative enough"?

You misunderstood me, I mentioned that Moyes is too old fashioned and not creative enough IMO, not the players, meaning he can't seem to have a plan to adapt sometimes to the players we have at the time, like Haller, regardless who signed him and Scam are top players IMO, meaning the recruitmnent hasn't been BAD, but not suitable for Moyes to adapt to or work out how to utilise them to our advantage, but he wouldn't change his set up to suit them, not saying he should have but again IMO he's TOO old school to do so, hope you now get what I was saying now!