West Ham Vs Nottm Forest Sat 25th Feb - kick off 3pm

claretandbluesky

A must win match in my view and Moyes needs to treat it as such. We can't allow results to drift past us with too many draws, this match is the definition of a six pointer.

It's a huge weekend as the other matches provide a great opportunity to hopefully make ground on our relegation rivals.

The highlights of which are:
Fulham Vs Wolves, Everton Vs Villa, Leeds vs Soton, Leics Vs Arsenal, Brnmth Vs City & Palace Vs L'pool

PrestonHammer

You better change the Notts to Nottm as Notts means county and Nottm means the city. I thought I'd say just in case someone else points it out hahaha

Hamstew

Yeah that's notts right

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Gonna be hard to get anything when we never look like scoring

Think it goes without saying but, a point here isn't good enough

Yeoldhammer

he needs 9 points against Forest / Brighton / Villa. Otherwise i cannot see where the points are coming from when you factor in European games etc. our poor form began second half of last season where the games caught up to us and they will do so again this season. The only exception is that we are in a worse position than before.

alderz

I'd really like to see us line up with two strikers for this one. We sort of did that against Spurs, because Bowen was absolutely not playing on the right wing, but he was dropping so deep in defence that we may as well have been playing one up top

I'd love for us to line up in a 3-4-1-2 sort of formation, with probably the same 3 & 4 as against Spurs, but for Soucek, Bowen and Antonio to come out for Benrahma, Ings and Scamacca. Ings has been capable in his career of playing as a lone striker, but probably his most successful spells came for Burnley and Southampton playing in a pair, whilst Scamacca was signed after a season playing in a two with Raspadori at Sassuolo. I feel like the big man / little man thing can really work with those two. I then want a #10 floating around the flanks and in behind, which I feel could really suit Benrahma. I wouldn't mind if it was Lanzini or Bowen, but I think the key is that whoever plays needs to a) be able to carry the ball at pace and b) not get caught a mile away from the strikers. Benrahma seems the most suited to me.

Something like this:

Ravel49

Scam & Ings the new Hartson & Kitson 🧐

OutcastLondoner

I think something like that to shake things up significantly would be good. I think there are a lot of the same patterns to our play that get repeated. Like the players are comfortable playing these same moves that rarely work. Though I think Antonio's done some good hold up play recently, I generally think his roaming around and positioning harms the wingers because there's no one in the box a lot of the time.

But I don't think Bowen's thing of always coming to the corner of the box for a Coufal cut back helps him much either. We never produce anything from it and it means we have no one in the box. On the other hand we got a goal on the rare occasion Bowen did get into the box when it went out wide to Coufal and was able to flick it on for Emerson's goal against Chelsea.

Generally we so often do this thing of a Rice diagonal out to Coufal, who then cuts back to pass it to Bowen waiting just behind him on the corner of the box, or loses it between him and Soucek. The other is Benrahma or Fornals, the left back, and Rice forming a triangle that gets up the pitch then slows down because Antonio's not in the box. Either the winger hits the first man with a cross or it gets worked to Rice, who I don't think is very good when he's on the edge of the box - he's at his best in an attacking sense with space to hit or drive into in front of him.

I also think we need Fornals on corners.

thornburyiron

Alderz 3-4-1-2 is the formation we went with yesterday but Bowen is always eager to be on the ball so kept dropping deep in order to pick it up. We went at them from the beginning and if Bowen had put the early chance away it may have been different but the longer it went on without our scoring the more we seemed to expect the inevitable. It was about 15 minutes before Spurs mounted a decent attack and that ended in a weak effort.
Had we started the second half as we did the first I think things could have come good but we started that as we have been starting recent games and handed them the initiative.
I can’t understand why we don’t at least try to be on the offensive from the start of each half as I’m sure that’s what Moyes wants but they don’t seem to be able to do it. Even Downes has stated we didn’t get out of the traps in the second half but why not as it’s in their hands to do so.
Spurs this season have been notoriously slow starters and have hardly scored in the first half of games so we needed to stop them coming out at us at the start of the second half which was expected.
Once the whistle blows its down to the players especially Rice to ensure this happens. What was noticeable was when there were stops in play Moyes was calling players over and giving them instructions. During the second half he was constantly instructing them to get further forward.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

We can't line up with Rice - Soucek - Downes if we are playing a back 5, just leaves the front 2 so isolated and gives us no pace/pressing

Reminds me of Noble-Kouyate-Obiang, whenever we tired it we were just rubbish, trying to Force Noble into a more attacking role. All 3 good players, but as a unit just didn't work

The only way that would work if both our wingback were overly-offensive, and while I like Emerson and Coufal neither are that dangerous, especially with their crossing which is quite limited

alderz

thornburyiron said:

Alderz 3-4-1-2 is the formation we went with yesterday but Bowen is always eager to be on the ball so kept dropping deep in order to pick it up.

That's why I would want that front three to include two actual strikers and an attacking midfielder. Bowen works back too much to be an out and out striker, and Soucek isn't a #10 by any stretch of the imagination (I thought Soucek had a decent game yesterday, FWIW)

Lukerz

Areola
Coufal - Kehrer - Aguerd - Emerson
Fornals - Rice - Lanzini
Bowen - Ings - Benrahma

Fabianski, Ogbonna, Johnson, Cresswell, Downes, Soucek, Antonio, Scamacca

It’s a bit risky I know with that back four but I think we need to mix it up a little. Hopefully Paqueta can make the squad too.

I think if we line up with a back five v Forest the crowd will be unimpressed & flat right form the start. Lanzini & Fornals (both pressing players & fresh) providing supply for Ings & the other front players should get us moving them about. Could potentially bring in Cresswell for Emerson who is more suited to a back four.

buffybegood

With who we've got available for CB and LB I think we have to play a back 3; wouldn't trust Kehrer or Ogbonna as one of 2 CBs, and not Cresswell or Emerson at LB, so I think we need to play 3 at the back. I like alderz's team, but still can't see Downes starting over Soucek. With what he says about Bowen, I wonder if he would be tried instead of Benrahma as the 1 in behind Ings and Scamacca, to provide pace driving from a bit deeper but more centrally. Can't see both Ings and Scamacca starting though, I doubt Scamacca would be fit to start just yet anyway.

alderz

Emerson played in a back four a lot for Lyon, I think

IronHerb

I have to ask but what does Downes offer? Neat short passes, yep, but no incisiveness and no attacking threat. We can’t afford two in front of a back five if neither has much attacking ability, and Rice is included in that.

jay_in_cpt

West Ham United v Nottingham Forest F.C.
Referee: Gillett, Jarred
Assistant Referee: Long, Simon
Assistant Referee: Wilkes, Matthew
Fourth Official: Jones, Robert
Video Assistant Referee: Harrington, Tony
Additional Video Assistant Referee: Burt, Stuart

buffybegood

alderz said:

Emerson played in a back four a lot for Lyon, I think

Tbh my comment was based more on the fact that Moyes preferred Kehrer at LB to Emerson.

IronHerb

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

Emerson played in a back four a lot for Lyon, I think

Tbh my comment was based more on the fact that Moyes preferred Kehrer at LB to Emerson.

Once at Leeds I think? And he was shocking.

Fortuneseeker

jay, Isn't he the one who sent Lemina off the other week for running at him in an "aggressive" fashion? He also helped get Cornet's goal at Stamford Bridge disallowed. We are doomed!

buffybegood

IronHerb said:

buffybegood said:

alderz said:

Emerson played in a back four a lot for Lyon, I think

Tbh my comment was based more on the fact that Moyes preferred Kehrer at LB to Emerson.

Once at Leeds I think? And he was shocking.

Indeed, but he was still played ahead of Emerson, suggesting Emerson isn't trusted at LB.

welovethehammers

I think shaking things up with Ings and Scamacca coming in should mentally give the players the boost they need. I think a lot of our problems this season has come from complacency due to repetitiveness. A fresh attacking approach with attacking players we’ve not seen much of this season should spur us on.

alderz

I think Emerson missed the league game before that against Newcastle, and then played 90 minutes against FCSB on the Thursday night, so maybe wasn’t up to speed for the Everton game?

jay_in_cpt

Fortuneseeker said:

jay, Isn't he the one who sent Lemina off the other week for running at him in an "aggressive" fashion? He also helped get Cornet's goal at Stamford Bridge disallowed. We are doomed!

That’s the one! The PL’s first Australian referee.

claretandbluesky

The big call for Moyes in this team selection is going to be Antonio. Whilst Scamacca may not yet be ready to see out a whole match, and personally if that's the case I would start him and take him off when he is spent, but the issue will be how can Antonio be keeping Ings out from the starting line up even if Scamacca isn't able to start. When Scamacca and Ings were brought in it was rightly for them to try and take the shirt from Antonio, yet he is doing nothing to warrant the shirt and so should lose it.

ASLEFshrugged

The big question is how bad was Bowen's injury.

If he's fit then Moyes will most likely revert to the 3-4-2-1 that delivered 8pts from 4 games and replace Downes with Benrahma.

If not then probably Benrahma on the left, Antonio on the right and Ings or Scamacca up front

ASLEFshrugged

ASLEFshrugged said:

"delivered 8pts from 4 games

Scrub that, replace with "two wins and two draws in 4 games" as one of those was Derby in the Cup

ASLEFshrugged

On the plus side Forest has the worst PL away record (P11 W1 D3 L7) with the only win at Saints who have the worst home record (also P11 W1 D3 L7)

Forest have only scored three away goals this season (Everton, Saints, Bournemouth) and have only kept two clean sheets (Saints, Brighton).

Last time we lost to Forest at home was New Year's Day 1997, Stuart Pearce was caretaker player/manager and it was Florin Raducioiu's last appearance before we sent him back to Espanyol (much to the disappointment of Mrs Raducioiu and Harvey Nicks).

The auguries point to a home win

BubblesNeverDies

ASLEFshrugged said:

On the plus side Forest has the worst PL away record (P11 W1 D3 L7) with the only win at Saints who have the worst home record (also P11 W1 D3 L7)

But we all know how West Ham seem to love to break a trend.

steve

Yes its in our DNA

Slacker

Yup, I can remember Northampton having one year in the top division, they were dreadful and had one away win all season.

Of course it was.

steve

Who Slacker who