The David Moyes Thread

Expat_Hammer

Also, I think that for the second time around, Moyes has built the fitness back into them

buffybegood

I wouldn't have been disappointed if Moyes had been asked to stay after his first stint, although I must admit to having been excited by the appointment of Pellegrini, not necessarily because I rated him, but because it seemed a statement of intent by G&S as Pelle would surely only have come with the iron-clad promise of much needed funds to spend.

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation was that Pelle wasn't able to cope with the standard of players at his disposal, especially when the chips were down. Moyes has come back in, steadied the boat, and will hopefully, over the next season or 2, provide the foundations to establish us as a solid top half team. Until we get new owners, that's the best we can realistically hope for; when we're there, we can be stable enough to have honest attempts at the cups and maybe challenge for the Europa League spots. I, for one, would gladly accept a few seasons of that rather than yet another relegation battle and fear that we'll lose any decent players we have to set us even further back from our ultimate destiny of ruling the galaxy.

baracks_a_hammer

So after the season is done, my own view is that it has been a terrible season overall. It cannot be anything but, having finished below 40 points and been humiliated in both cups. There’s little to celebrate and it’s good to see Moyes kind of recognises that too. A season of always looking over our shoulders is very much par for the course for an Upton Park West Ham, but wholly unacceptable after the reason given for shifting our home. Time after time, briefly interrupted by the Payet season we find ourselves in this situation.

I am very far from being a fan of Moyes, but on balance feel he deserves to see us into next season. Firstly because of the two outstanding buys in Bowen and Soucek (Assuming moyes found them) - the latter for me is looking like one of the best buys in the Sully era - without the break which allowed him to recover from injury, we could well have been sunk. Secondly because Moyes got us firing and delivering in the crucial post Covid period. And lastly because we are stuck with our owners (sadly), and therefore we cannot feasibly expect much more.

Next season for me (with the right buys), we will likely be 10th to 12th. Our squad is a mess with our most expensive players (plus wilshere) benched in recent games. That is not sustainable. And then we do have a problem when it comes to our keeper - I shudder to think how many points one or other of our keepers have cost us this season. Fab is on the wane, and Randy is not the future.

The club will likely meander along for the foreseeable - the next date to look forward to is 2023 when hopefully the Dave’s hand over to new owners with a better and clearer vision and strategy for moving forwards such as Wolves and Leicester. 25 years plus as owners of football clubs - they achieved little with Birmingham and it is looking like a carbon copy at West Ham.

yoyo

A fair assumption I feel.

alderz

I’m interested to find out whether Moyes thinks he can turn around the likes of Lanzini and Anderson, or if they’ll be shipped out. He’s done a good job with flash players in the past, so why not

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Well he likes Lanzini, as he was played every week when Moyes first arrived as he did so well under him in the first stint

But he was woeful, and has barely had a look in. Think that the idea will be move him on, but there may not he any offers so he will have to work with him

Lukerz

Moyes has lots to work with:

Johnson, Diop, Rice, Soucek, Bowen, Fornals, Diangana...

That’s the core of a very young side. All players 25 & under.

I would seriously be thinking about looking for buyers for Lanzini, Anderson & Haller (£60m). I think we could basically assemble a transfer budget from the sales of those three. I don’t massively rate Yarmo, but feel he has earned more of a right to stay around, given he has never played consistently, has had two serious injuries & yet continues to chip in with vital goals.

Equally, Moyes may decide he can get more out of Haller, Anderson, Lanzini next season, but in which case we will not be making any major signings this summer.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Think with Yarmolenko is his wages....pretty sure hes the highest paid player at the club, on about £110k p/w

But I agree....i think Moyes has enough good to work with, with or without transfers

I also hope he persists with looking within to promote, like he did with Ngakia and Johnson

There are a few younger players who could be promoted to the first team this year (or next for a few of the younger ones) if for depth more than anything, Coventry, Cullen, Holland, Trott, Alese, Cordoso, Favrier, Baptiste, Diallo, Odubeko etc.

If they arent quite good enough (which is more likely than not) hopefully we can make a bit of money selling then on to Championship clubs

alderz

Lukerz

I don’t think we need ‘major’ signings - most turn out to be a bust for us anyway. I think we need more depth and a couple of upgrades in a couple of areas, and not a huge amount else.

IMO we have a good squad, we just didn’t use it correctly under Pellegrini when thinks started to go awry. I have hope that Moyes will be able to get more out of a lot of those players when we start again, as a lot of them are good players that just aren’t built for a scrap. There was some link up play between Yamolenko, Lanzini and Haller yesterday that showed just how good they all are, you just don’t get that in a relegation fight.

IronHerb

I agree. We seem to do our best trade in the £10-20m range, which is probably right for a club like ours.

Lukerz

Alderz 👍

When I say ‘major’, I didn’t mean big money. Just more meaningful to the first 11.

Lukerz

Personally I felt Pelle would have kept us up. Not to say that that is good enough. But he would have done.

Our record under Pelle this season: played 19, 19 points. Under Moyes it’s: played 19, 20 points.

So nothing in it. They have nothing between them, however Moyes can claim ‘it’s not his squad’, whereas Pelle moulded his squad & got very little out of it this year.

IronHerb

Moyes took over a squad that had dropped from 6th to 16th, or thereabouts, so you can't really compare. He took over following a run of 2 wins in 13 games so confidence was shot to pieces.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

Yea on paper Pelles reign wasnt too bad

But we were definitely in a freefall that didnt look to be ending anytime soon

jay_in_cpt

We should also have Snodgrass back, I know he's not getting younger, but when fit has proved himself more than capapble ( even if a squad member )....

Cuz1

OutcastLondoner said:

It's only recently that we've shown progress, just at the right time, but next season Moyes has to prove it's more than just a run of games when our backs were up against the wall. We've basically done the basics properly and I don't think it's been very much more than that. But maybe the basics are enough.

Couldn’t agree more, this season will define moyes with us not the two escapes, he’s definitely not my cup of tea, probably never will be but good luck to him

baracks_a_hammer

Not my cup of tea either by a long shot, but the way this club has regressed means that Sullly can do no better than Moyes. Likewise, having no job since he left us the first time meant that Moyes could not do any better than West Ham. So in that sense both have got as good as they could have hoped.

Lukerz

I actually think Moyes is the perfect fit for us the more it goes on.

I was not overwhelmed by him & still disagree with how the owners refuse to spend any money on a managerial target, & just search the ‘out of work’ market.

But I think he is no-nonsense, is liked by the players, direct in what he wants & expects, communicates well, has a decent CV but one that is in need of reinvention following a couple of underwhelming jobs at other clubs. I like the fact he went abroad, something that most British managers do not do. It can only have been a learning experience. We all know his career is predominantly Everton themed, with a badly timed Manchester United move (but one nobody would ever reject). I would ignore Sociedad in terms of judging his ability, but he definitely failed at Sunderland (although look where they are now).

I think we both are suited to each other at this moment, are good for each other, can help each other restore reputations & am optimistic based on our form after lockdown, plus pre-season so far, that we will have a solid season.

Lukerz

So, where do we stand on Moyes now...

Anybody who has had a change of heart this season?

I must admit, that Lanzini moment could be a significant point in his time with us. Seems to be a lot more goodwill on social media & other forums towards him.

Is he winning the fanbase over?

BubblesNeverDies

I always thought it was a mistake to replace him with MP.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

He’s twice pulled us to safety from bad positions. I’m really keen to see how he does with a full season.

I think we have better structure and more grit than under other recent managers. And I think we’re good to watch going forward.

Substitutions are still a gripe but maybe he’s just laying down the law. He’s in charge and you don’t get minutes just because you’ve been good in the past - you get minutes for working hard. On the other hand, there have been games where some starters are knackered and they still don’t get replaced until too late.

We’ve still had some poor performances under him, but a lot of good too. I’m excited to see how he does with a team that is increasingly his own, rather than inherited.

Cuz1

I’m still on the unsure side it’s when things don’t go to plan where I worry most about him but winning is what he does so maybe I won’t have to worry

BubblesNeverDies

Cuz, you're obviously coming round to him.
Previously you were totally against Moyes, now you're just unsure.

Lukerz

I can only put his lack of subs down to the fact that he does not trust the players on the bench to add more value to the performance.

An example would have been when we played Arsenal, & he brought on Yarmolenko, who was partly responsible for the winning goal for Arsenal.

When you are looking at your bench to sure up a game & you see a lot of attacking options, it is harder to utilise them. Easier to lob them all on when you are losing, but since Newcastle we have not been in that position much. Spurs was probably the first time since the opening game that we were in a no lose position.

I still didn’t understand the Everton Cup game when we were 2-1 down. That did annoy me. For a place in the 1/4 finals. We could have thrown on a couple of attacking changes but held off.

baracks_a_hammer

I don’t think the saving from relegation bit need deserves copious amounts of credit in either year. Both times the quality of personnel at the club were easily good enough to be nowhere near a relegation scrap.

I was not of the view first time round that he shouldn’t have been replaced. However I don’t think he should have been replaced by a clearly past it Pelle. If that was the choice he should have been kept. However there wasn’t anything overly great by his first spell, and a few virtuoso Arnie displays saw us right. The transfers were a disaster - he bought hugill and didn’t play him, and supposedly turned down Maddison.

I think second time round he (Moyes) seems to be a different package. His transfers are for sure. Trouble is we were in complete free fall when Pelle left and in many ways we needed quick action and a quick bounce of results. But he is not that type of manager. So at times up to lockdown I was exasperated, even of the view that he was stealing a living in this league - because the thing that mattered most - points - weren’t coming quick enough.

Lockdown has transformed things though for him and the team. We got a clean run of injury free games with our key players involved (having soucek back and fit was massive). Still the odd blip in there, but generally going in the right way, with vastly improved levels of fitness and a more steely mental attitude.

So now, again after a blip he has us full of confidence and playing with a swagger with fantastic team spirit and a never say die attitude. What’s not to like? Still though let’s see what consistency we can get across a whole season. Nice though not to want to question our manager’s position. I’m still GSB out, mind!

Cuz1

BubblesNeverDies said:

Cuz, you're obviously coming round to him.
Previously you were totally against Moyes, now you're just unsure.

😂😂 true but I also agree with barracks if he couldn’t keep us up with the squad he had or the dross that were eventually relagated, then he shouldn’t be in the job,however maybe he deserves a full season to see what he’s about rather than just a fire fighter then I will have a clearer picture

BubblesNeverDies

There is a common element with his two appointments - the style of play that the previous 2 managers wanted and therefore the players were possibly not who he would necessarily have preferred.
Slav and MP wanted to play an expansive attacking style - see where that's getting WBA at the moment.
As baracks said, lockdown has changed things in that he's been able to work with the players much more and get them playing how he wants them to before having to put it into practice in a real match.
And also, echoing baracks - GSB out.

WHU_Champo_league_in_7_years

I'm loving Moyes at the club

Since we've moved to the stadium I've had 2 huge issues when it comes to the onfield issues at the club
1. A lack of fitness. How often were we run off the park. We were last for distance run per 90 and sprint per 90 in like 3 of the last 4 seasons. We were overrun and outmsucled in most games which led to point 2....
2. A weak mentality. We have lost so many points under Bilic and Pellegrini due to this. We'd go ahead, then panic and capitulate. We have bought and played a lot of players that just look miserable playing for us, and don't want to be here, but continue to ply them week in week out as they are good "on paper"

Moyes has fixed these 2 issues

We look as fit as anyone, pressing from the 1st minute to the 90th

And we never give up, and beside the Brighton game right at the start, we look strong when we are front. You can see fire in the bellies of players, and those that don't show the desire have been dropped and hungry players have been brought in (like fornals who it took moyes while to warm up to after trying anderson/lanzini)

Moyes has the guys playing like a team, a team where every single person looks like they want to be here

And we a philosophy
Defend deep, press when the opposition gets to the half way line and when we get the ball we attack with pace and with numbers

Even under Slav (and 100% under Pellegrini) I always thought we just put 11 players on the pitch and hoped it clicked, the players never seemed to know what they were supposed to do

Also his transfers, always hard to judge but by what I've heard from Him and Sullivan, he has been in control of them. And while the were a few attractive options we turned down, I only judge in the players that come in and Bowen & Soucek have been phenomenal. Dont wanna jump the gun on Coufal too soon, but he's looked fantastic so far

He may not be play the sexiest football, but we finally look like a "team" that's knows what's expected of it and where its going

With Moyes we can be a safe mid table team compared to the misery of relaegtion battles

The question for me is if we can have a year or 2 with stable mid table finishes and no drama, can he take us forward, but that's not a question that needs answering now

claretandbluesky

I wonder If Nolan has made a difference also, he was always a great Captain wherever he played and that sort of character is what you need to bring players together and instil a sense of belief. Two things we have at present.

Expat_Hammer

Imagine Nolan and Noble in charge, both seem to love the club. COYI