Smash Those Potters - Stoke (A) Match Thread 16.12.17 3pm

Vorselaarhammer

What’s the point of having a South American in your team if he doesn’t dive...

MrsGrey

Hart will surely play in the Cup game on Teusday.

MrsGrey

thornburyiron said:

C&B I don't think saying "he tries to prevent getting clattered" is a good thing to say either. That implies that he went down before he was touched to avoid being touched ie he dived.

Was unbalanced, at speed, because he was trying to avoid being clatttered (nothing in the rules says you have to take the hit). Was looking like he was heading for a juddering landing - might have been able to recover but them got a further touch (at speed) and was knocked further off balance, making a safe landing impossible.

;biggrin

TwistandShout

Lukerz said:

And that bloke who tried to wipe Lanzini out before the pen on halfway should also face retrospective action. Lose all sympathy for the ‘soft pen’ when a player tries to cynically do that.

Ah yes the delightful human being that is Ryan Shawcross (i assume it was him because he 'done' Masuaku in the 2nd half too, nowhere near the ball)

IronHerb

It's always good to see Sparky Hughes with the hump. In one interview he said Arnie only turned up for the last 10 minutes against a young kid while Stoke were going for it. Not sure what he was watching for the previous 80 minutes but Arnie tore their defence apart all afternoon with his strength and pace.
Did Lanzini dive or was he jumping the wipeout tackle that did not eventually arrive? I'm not sure. I don't think he will get a ban or else you are saying the ref, who was in a great position only 10 yards away, is totally incompetent.

TwistandShout

What a horrible little club Stoke are by the way. Awful tackles just because we're better. The abuse Arnautovic got was ridiculous. Mark Hughes giving him a send off too ;doh Maybe they should concentrate on how bad their own team is...

Pearces_Left_Foot

Vardy has won so many penalties doing exactly what Lanzini did so did Gary linker when he played but of course they were being clever footballers

Lukerz

Hilarious how passionate the Stoke fans were at giving stick to Arnie all game. Seemed to forget their team was actually playing.

OldCastleSwift

IronHerb said:

Did Lanzini dive or was he jumping the wipeout tackle that did not eventually arrive? I'm not sure. I don't think he will get a ban or else you are saying the ref, who was in a great position only 10 yards away, is totally incompetent.

Good point Herbie. The FA and PL do like to protect their refs.

For me, it was a dive and I think he lucked in by Pieters eventually making contact. That, plus the fact that the referee was so close, makes me think that he'll get away with it.

baracks_a_hammer

The only way yesterday could have been bettered is if Arnie, after being subbed, strode off, straight down the tunnel, but carrying the match ball too.

3-0 flattered them. Arnie should have had 4 just by himself.

Pearces_Left_Foot

Tbh Spurs put in some appalling tackles yesterday the fa should look at some of those but they won't of course

MrsGrey

I was not that keen on Arnautovic signing, tbh. I know he's skilful etc - but for me he was always too inconsistent. Pacy, strong etc, but too often it came to nothing, and was wasted.

So I'm pleased he's doing well for us, and hope he keeps it up (and doesn't revert back to being the player I thought we'd signed).

MrsGrey

I will just say, I'm not keen on our time-wasting tactics.

Which I think can only be a direction from the manager.

thornburyiron

Difficult to say Mrs G. When Slav was boss we were rarely in front so didn't need to time waste except Palace where he was furious that Antonio didn't. ;biggrin

Fortuneseeker

NEoldiron said:

If Lanzini is banned, they did need to go over all the penalties awarded in similar circumstances and especially against us.

They didn't do Zaha v Bournemouth?

buffybegood

Re Lanzini, I think the contact was inevitable, Lanzini knew this and was on the way down before the contact. I thought at the time it was a defo penalty, and I've seen the angle more or less from the ref's view, and again it really looks like he's been clattered first and so I completely understand why it's been given. It really is no different to loads that Zaha or Vardy "win", but they shouldn't be given imo. Unless the contact is going to be a real leg breaker, be a man, take any contact that happens and see whether it knocks you off your feet. If it doesn't, it's for the ref to decide if it's a foul.

In one of the games yesterday they had a ref in the commentary box, and he as good as said if you don't go down, you won't win a penalty. That's what needs to change, together with the "he's been touched, he's entitled to go down". The refs need to man up and make the hard decisions, that's what they're paid for. Any contact does not mean you are allowed to throw yourself to the floor, football is a contact sport after all. However, a player can be impeded or fouled without him going down, and if pens are given for that then maybe the going over when you're breathed on (or when the wind blows) will stop.

I won't hold my breath though.

Yeoldhammer

Pieters didn't make a challenge though, you seem him bring back his leg.

grey_til_I_dye

Keown/Wright say definite dive, Kammy and Wagner, say deffo not a dive.

For me, there is clearly enough doubt to suggest that even if it is examined, you won't find 3 people in agreement that it was a dive.

buffybegood

Yeoldhammer said:

Pieters didn't make a challenge though, you seem him bring back his leg.

He still goes through into Lanzini though, there is still significant contact but Manu is already on the way down when it happens.

baracks_a_hammer

I don’t think the defender is going through - I think he is trying to put the brakes on his challenge. Lanzini is trying to direct his tumble towards the defender

However, the referee had a clear unobstructed view - probably better than any of the camera angles we’ve been shown. So why he had given it is a question for him really

Secondly I get the impression many of the stoke protests in the immediate aftermath were actually on account of the foul not given in the build up (Arthur I think). You can see Shawcross pointing to the half way line when he is remonstrating with the ref

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

The defender goes to ground but doesn’t even make a challenge as such, his leg doesn’t extend across Lanzini’s path, so to say he was avoiding being clattered is flimsy IMO.

I hope there is enough doubt for him not to be retrospectively punished, but if I was on the panel, I’d say that was a definite dive.

Yeoldhammer

buffybegood said:

Yeoldhammer said:

Pieters didn't make a challenge though, you seem him bring back his leg.

He still goes through into Lanzini though, there is still significant contact but Manu is already on the way down when it happens.

disagree, Lanzini goes into him, he purposely clips Pieters knee to make sure there is contact. Pieters doesn't go through him at all if he did Lanzini would have been wiped out.

baracks_a_hammer

I think he is well in the soup personally

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Away from us, what an absolutely vile institution Stoke are.

We deserved the penalty IMO for the way that horrible Shawcross tried to hack at Lanzini’s heels near the halfway line. Should be expected for such a classless brute, but still, it was a nasty attempt at taking out an actual footballer and was as good as taking Lanzini out in the box.

Their football is worse than when they had Pulis, lumping it to Crouch over and over and hoping for set pieces. It was horrific enough watching them when they could defend. Now, dear me. No wonder somebody tried to cut the power. They would have looked an awful lot better in the dark.

Their treatment of Arnie throughout was over the top, too. He left. Get over it. He wanted to play for a club with a little more ambition and class. When you watch your hoofing rabble of thugs, what do you expect? To start throwing things on the pitch was embarrassing and indicative of the utterly poisonous institution they are.

And to top it all, Mark Hughes really showing some class by shouting and swearing at Arnie as he left the pitch. As if the way his team played football wasn’t undignified enough, he had to surrender the final scrap of self-respect he had by abusing an opposing player for no reason other than the fact he’s better than the whole forward like Hughes has remaining to him combined.

Disgusting club.

SuzanneClaret

Well said Jordez

I thought Moyes decision to substitute Arnie was excellent, once he’d gone their fans lost their reason for staying and left the ground.

Situation and poisonous atmosphere defused.

baracks_a_hammer

I personally think Arnie handled himself really well yesterday. Let his football do the talking. Didn’t allow himself to get involved in potentially toxic situations on the field which might have led to him getting send off.

Jorderz_Moyes_will_be_Moyes

Agreed, Arnie showed all the class they didn’t. He’s impressed me so much since Moyes came in.

MrsGrey

;ok

Although, I'm not keen on the fact that when he scores he tends to shrug off the other players.

I'm a big fan of group hugs.

baracks_a_hammer

If he carries on delivering the way he is, I couldn’t care less even if he refused a hug from his own mother..

grey_til_I_dye

https://twitter.com/whu606forum/status/942378677907722240